Four Fingers Less, Fisheye Becomes a Thing in Hip Hop, and Dancing with VFX for Elvis (with Guest Mandy Walker, ASC, ACS - Cinematographer)

Nigel | Hello, I understand we have an Australian flavor to this broadcast today.

Vance | Well, today we are going to be chatting with Mandy Walker. We actually chatted with her the other day. She's a Director of Photography nominated for an Oscar and a BAFTA for her incredible work on Elvis directed by Baz Luhrmann. And actually, it's so much fun, that we're not even going to have a poor segment today. We're just going to chat with Mandy the entire time. So she's pretty fun.

 
Nigel |  I just have one question for you before we move on. What is the plural of Elvis?
 
Vance | This is Elvis's house, I guess.
 
Nigel | No the plural of Elvis is Elvie.
 
Vance | Really?

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Vance | So Nigel it's Oscar season again. I've been watching a bunch of films and checking out the nominations for Best Picture. What are you seeing lately? Have you been watching?
 
Nigel | Yeah, well, I'm a member of BAFTA, and also the DGA, so I get screeners. And I've watched all of the best picture nominations apart from one. And my overriding impression, which I've already shared on Facebook is that I just want to be entertained. And not much that I saw was entertaining me. So maybe I'm just getting old and craggy. But I wanted to just enjoy an experience. In my little virtual cinema. What are your thoughts?
 
Vance | Well, firstly, what movie didn't you say? I'm curious. Because I didn't see one also.
 
Nigel | I'm afraid I did not get around to seeing women talking. But I read an interview the other day with the director and I wished that I had seen it now. But now that the date has gone past and I can't get access to my screeners anymore, so I regret not seeing that one.
 
Vance | was actually a very poignant film, I thought and I really enjoyed it. Umm, there was a moment I was like, Okay, I am maybe I can't get through this. it was , a long conversation in many regards. But I've got to say it really, really has stuck with me. So I think it's a definitely a film worth watching.
 
Nigel | Well, I'll make a point of checking out which was the one that you did not see?
 
Vance | I have not seen the The Fabelmans.
 
Nigel | All right, which I have seen.
 
Vance | Yeah, umm, what do you think of it?
 
Nigel | Umm, I got to the end and it was like Yeah, so what he's, he's a fabulous director. Now obviously, that's not a question, but I just felt that the script is not up to par. I mean, it's obviously part of Spielberg's life. Beautifully shot as always, very well directed. One fantastic scene in the middle with the actor from whose started out in taxi whose name I can't remember. This is very embarrassing.
 
Nigel | uh With a long face, Judd Hirsch. Maybe?
 
Vance | Judd Hirsch. Yeah Judd Hirsch

Nigel | Fantastic scene with him and the lead character, which suddenly the movie came alive in the middle. And he was just in that one scene. And once he left, it was all back to the story. It was beautifully done. Great acting looked great. But I just did not engage with the story.I'm afraid.
 
Vance | Yeah, I do want to see it, though, I mean, Janusz kaminski shot it and you know, it was shot on film. So it's always going to be beautiful and stunning to look at that way

You liked a film called Banshees of Isherin? Which, unfortunately, I did not this one could have be substantially shorter in my mind. Maybe four fingers less would be good.
 
Nigel | Well, it's a bit like Babylon, which I've just realized is not nominated for Best Picture. It's the old story of inside this two and a half hour movie is a one and a half hour movie struggling to get out. Yeah (Vance).
I read and have read Daily Variety, pretty much every day for 30 years. So of course, I'm not aware of what exactly goes on when one of these fabulous directors goes into have a meeting with the studio boss, but you hear the stories of the executive at the studio saying we want to be in the Bill Smith business. You know, we want to make a movie with you. And certainly in Damien Chazelle's case he's had lots of success with Lala land. And I suspect that he probably negotiated a deal where he got Final Cut. So if he says my move is going to be over three hours. So be it. Nobody's going to come in and snip snip, snip and make it shorter.
 
Vance | You know, obviously, movies like Lawrence of Arabia, which was like, what was it three hours and 47 minutes and Gone With the Wind was nearly four hours, two minutes shy of four hours. So they did use to make long films. I read that when VHS came about, the studio's all got nervous, and then they started making movies that would fit on a VHS tape. And I think there was this sort of argument that Oh you know, shorter films, you're going to have more screenings put more bodies in seats. But, you know, with the multiplexes with 18 theaters, that's not so much of a concern. And if you look at it, these extra long movies have become more like events,and it's mostly big superhero movies, Avengers or James Bond.  So you know I just think it's a sign of the times personally, but there's plenty of movies that I could say, Wow, If this was 20 minutes shorter, I would have really enjoyed this
 
Nigel | Well, Winston Churchill is famous for having said something along the lines of I'm afraid this speech is going to be rather long because I did not have the time to make it shorter. So it's along the same level really. I mean, one of my favorite all time movies, which I looked up in readiness of this conversation was French Connection. I love that movie. One hour 44 minutes. (Yep- Vance), Extraordinary story has a beginning a middle of an end, your very clear idea of who the characters are and what they're fighting for and fighting against. And it's great I have a movie, which is in inverted commas and event. But like I said, just a minute ago, I want to be entertained. (Yeah- Vance), you know, I'm working hard all day long. It's eight o'clock, I've had my dinner, perhaps I've gone out to the movies, or even if I've rented it off the airwaves, and I sit down, and I'm like, entertain me for two hours, it doesn't mean that it all has to be laughter and funny and blah, blah, blah, you know, maybe I actually need a story. But at that point of my day, I wish to be entertained, or I wish to learn something.  I mean, I felt that Babylon, which as I say, is not on the list. Could have been an hour shorter, and would have been a terrific piece of film.
 
Nigel | I think it's very interesting this year, that Top Gun Maverick is nominated for Best Picture. I think in many of the years it would have been you know what, this is a popcorn movie. This is not in inverted commas art, but I think it's made its way into the finals if you like, because it's completely entertaining.
 
Vance | Exactly. I mean, its a roller coaster ride. It's a lot of fun. And the whole fighter sequence was Luke Skywalker going into the trenches and shooting a missile down the little hole uhhm that gets us excited. And I think, that's what movies need to be they just need to be entertaining and I think sometimes they tend to take themselves a little too seriously.
 
Nigel | Well, unfortunately, it's this point at which commercialism collides with art.that's a 7 hour conversation between (yeah no kidding)15 Educated people right on its own so perhaps beyond the purview of our of our little broadcast but that's my view. (Yeah- Vance)
 
Nigel | so out of the nominations, which was your favorite film of the year.
 
Vance |  triangle of sadness, hands down. I thought it was wonderful. these sort of wealthy elitist people stuck on a ship and insanity iensues. I was thoroughly entertained and enjoyed it immensely. And, you Nigel what was yours?
 
Nigel | I'm going to shock you it was the Banshees in a Sheeran, which obviously, you did not enjoy?
 
Vance | No, I mean, obviously, the performances of the actors were fantastic. To me, it fell apart in the in the story, I, I didn't buy them by him chopping his fingers off one by one because this guy wouldn't leave him alone. He just, I don't. I didn't. I wasn't that impressed, so.
 
Nigel | I was engaged. I mean, I found myself laughing at the beginning. I loved the interplay between the two characters. It's obviously a character study. And I had no idea where it was going. And on that level triangle of sadness is exactly the same. I mean, when they all wind up on the island, and I'm not going to give it away in case you haven't seen the movie to those of you who are listening, something extraordinary happens which turns the movie completely upside down. which is great because it's nice to get a surprise, yeah, unfortunately so many times you see them the movie poster, in the days before you go and see the film, and there's the handsome, hunky star in a romantic embrace with the gorgeous babe. And quite obviously, if they don't kiss before the end of the movie, you're going to want your money back. So this is two films which had ideas which you did not see coming.
 
Vance |  I think that's a really, really actually a really good point. And both films do do that. And the performances are great in both films. I just think Triangle of sadness actually had somewhat of a conclusion, whereas Banshee didn't really go anywhere. But that's just me.
 
Nigel | Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw a hand grenade into the conversation, now (ROh Roh- Vance) Oh, and I'm probably upset a lot of people is that love him or hate him? A man who is now in jail, and deservedly so, Harvey Weinstein, who was known as Harvey Scissor Hands, to people who worked with him,The story goes that you would walk in and say, Well, you know, thank you very much for directing this fabulously arty piece of film. Now, I'm going to cut the hell out of it. So we can actually have a story which people can engage with. And, arguably, if he ever had a good part to him, maybe there was something to be said for that. In all these cases, a third party going in said, look, I'm sorry, this ain't working.
 
Vance |  I've heard two sides of that story. One is where, obviously, you've got a smart third party coming in who's collaborative and gets it and actually improves the story. And then unfortunately, the other third party, which is all too prevalent comes in and screws it up. So you know, it's a kind of a double edged sword.
 
Nigel | And I have certainly been the receptor of that second version
 
Nigel | Who's gonna get best cinematography then?
 
Vance | That's a tough one. I mean, there's a lot of great work out there. Certainly, I'm rooting for Mandy, because number one, she's a fellow countrymen. She's the only third woman ever to be nominated for an Oscar, two of which are Australian, by the way.  I thought it was stunning work. Every frame was beautiful. Her techniques, which you're going to find out more about a bit later were fantastic. But I did watch All Quiet on the Western Front last night. And that was pretty impressive also, as you said, the 4 or 5 endings. It's gonna end now..noh, not yet. (No, no, no,). But as far as a film that kind of captured the insanity of a war that killed 17 million people in four years it was pretty incredible. So of course, now you've also got your Darius Kanji and, Roger Deakin. So, it's a really hard one. I mean, these are all people that I feel I've done great work, so I'm going to enjoy watching who wins because I have no idea at this point.
 
Nigel | The thing that surprises me about the list of nominations this year is that Colin Farrell, who was in the The Banshees of Inisherin has not been nominated for Best eyebrows in a film.
 
Vance | which uh eyebrows are they?
 
Nigel | Well it's like he's got two worms on top of his eyes, you know, his eyebrows are just massive. (Yeah) I could not take my eyes off them.
 
Vance | You know what? That's true. And you know, I mean, we should write the academy and tell them we need to add best eyebrows in a motion picture.
 
Nigel | I think it's long overdue.
 
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Nigel | speaking of Awards, we've just had the Grammys, which I think became well known for Sam Smith's extraordinary outfit and the ripples thereof. On some level I kind of support because it's his job to sell his record. And he's certainly got the headlines. (Yeah he did). he certainly won that and that's what you do. You get on these things to go publicize your latest piece of work. But there was a segment in which I know resonated with you.
 
Vance | Well, I did not see it. I was working, but I did see the trailer. And it was the 50th anniversary of hip hop. You know, during the 90s, we shot so many hip hop artists and many of those on that list. I've had been fortunate enough to work with , Busta Rhymes, LL Cool J and many, many more, I kind of got into that world. Through a video I shot called Sweet Dreams by Marilyn Manson, which was directed by Dean Carr. There's great stories about that, but we'll save that for another episode. But Hype Williams called up based on the fact that he loved that video so much and off I go to New York to shoot actually two videos for Tribe Called Quest directed by Hype one of those being Stressed Out. day one we're shooting out of Panavision New York and Hype loved wide lenses. we were shooting with a 10 millimeter Panavision Primo, which is actually a really beautiful piece of glass. But anyway, he came up he said, Man, I wish I had something wider than this.and I knew that Panavision New York had got an eight millimeter nikor still lens and put a PV mount on that camera, which is you know Panavision's version of the PL mount so I told Hype Listen Yeah, man we can get this lens over and check it out and he said yeah, get it right now and Panavision was only you know,think 12th and maybe 36th street somewhere around there. But anyway, they zip this lens over and we put it on the camera and pretty much stayed on for nearly every job I ever shot for Hype,(Hahaha),Camera assistants loved it. I mean, I thought the camera assistsants were brilliant they could keep that thing sharp. haha but interestingly enough, as far as I know,that was the moment that the fisheye lens became a thing in hip hop and that Nikor eight millimeter lens lived with me for several years because everybody wanted to use it.
 
Nigel | Well I salute you having done so many Hip Hop videos I've never even been asked to do one, I had somebody asked me quite recently, you know why I hadn't done any? And I said, Well, I think if I was a hip hop artist, I'd be nervous about asking some English bloke to make a video for me, because how would you have any concept of my life experience? Which I think, you know, certainly in the early days played into those videos.
 
Vance | Yeah Nigel That does make a lot of sense. There are so many fun stories about shooting those videos thats for sure. But Speaking of funs stories, a couple of days ago, we got to have a wonderful chat with cinematographer Mandy Walker. Her films include such titles as Mulan, Hidden Figures and Australia. This year she is nominated for an Academy Award and a BAFTA. I have to ssay I am a big fan of her work so I was pretty excited to have a conversation with her.
 
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Vance | very, very happy today to uh welcome Mandy Walker, who is nominated for an Oscar for her incredible work on Elvis. Mandy, Nigel is uh a director that actually gave me my start in uh- ooh 1987 or so. , 'cause I was a rock and roll LD and I kind of fell into the film business and Nigel gave me a break.
 
Nigel | And I am still paying the price.

Vance | Oh isn't he ever?

all | Laughs

Mandy | Good to be here Vance and Nigel!
 
Nigel | Well, I'd like to apologize in advance for being a horrible Pom that's sort of busting in on this uh Aussie chat. I'm going to start off with a question, which I suspect you haven't been asked yet, during your round of uh promoting the movie. both Vance and I were at Camerimage as you were and we went to a presentation by the ACS, the Australian Cinematographers Society, called "A Wider Lens," which was subtitled "Australian Camera Workforce Development and Diversity"(uh uh - Mandy) which looks at the lack of women and people of colorin the film crews in Australia. I don't think this is a problem unique to Australia. during my time in the business, I think it certainly got a lot better. It's certainly improved. but you are one of the three only three women ever nominated for cinematography. So my question is, is this situation improving fast enough? You know, what do you think? Is it getting better? Or what can we do to make it happen faster?
 
Mandy | Well, um it's definitely getting better. I mean, when I first started in the industry, which was what, 30 odd years ago? I would be the only woman in the camera department and even you know as a loader or an AC and that was an unusual thing for women to be in camera. It is definitely getting better and myself and , all the other women that I know who are cinematographers, we go out of our way to try and be more inclusive of women and and um people of color, too. Because there is such a lack of diversity in our part of the industry, as you say, but I do find that also, it's been made, more of an issue now. So it, people are more cognizant of it. And when I, every time I'm on a film now, me personally, I try and always include as many women in my department and train them and training I think is a big thing, because because there's not many women, who are experienced, training is where it's the key to get people experience. So it's definitely a change. It's slow. And I think it's the same with directors, you know that the two last areas of filmmaking where, where women just aren't, aren't represented enough, I think, we're at, cinematographers still only like, 6% or something. So it's changing. It's changing faster now, but it's still not there yet.
 
Vance | Yeah, I mean to your point, Mandy, mentorship I think, is incredibly important. And something that, you know, I want to be involved in, and I do hear stories of people that maybe haven't had the training, they necessarily need being put in positions that allow them to say, "See? Told you so," (yeah, yeah- Mandy) and that's not cool. And I think we all need to jump in. But to that note you started out as a PA and you became a loader and a focus puller and uh operated a little bit. How was that journey in relation to what we're speaking about? Actually?
 
Mandy | Well, I did actually apply to film school when I left high school and I didn't get in. [all laughs] Um so I , therefore I started on set, and I was actually doing it, the way I started was, I was an doing an academic, film like appreciation course. And I spoke to the teacher there, who was John Flouse, [notification sound] who's an Australian actor. I said to him, this is what I really want to do, because I knew I wanted to be a cinematographer, from when I was about 14 or 15. And um, and then he gave me the number of someone who was making a feature film, and it sort of went from there. But um I think that I was always like, there was me and a couple of other women at that point in Australia, the whole of Australia. And we all we all knew each other.so it was hard at first, it was hard, mainly with the grip and electrics, I have to say because they they you know, would always be testing me out to see if I carry the gear and stuff like that. But, you know, I just powered on and ignored it and knew that this is what I wanted to do. And I was passionate about it and kept going.
 
Vance | That's really awesome.
 
Vance | you know, I came out of theater and uh rock and roll lighting bu you were pretty self-taught in lighting, which me and certainly in the film side I very much was self-taught. How do you go about that? What was your motivation?
 
Mandy | well, I took stills when I was at in high school and made little Super8 movies and I just always loved cinema and wanted to be a cinematographer when very early on. So when I was on set in the camera department, I was always obviously watching , the DOP and what they were doing and asking them questions every so often but also just seeing how they ran a set, that was really important, and the relationships and how their relationship with the director, which is, you know, obviously my most important relationship on set. And I would watch those different examples of those relationships But I- I always kept shooting little things myself, you know, on the weekend, I'd get together with friends, we'd make short films, or um I'd help other people on their student films. So I still think the way I learned was by actually doing it, because you can watch someone else light, but until you're there, you know, looking at each of the exposures, and you have an idea in your head about an image and the image you're trying to create. You can't copy someone else doing that you have to physically do it yourself.
 
Vance | Yeah, no, I agree with you. 100%. apart from all of the obviously, technical craft aspect, and logistics and so forth, for me anyway, and I think probably for you looking at your work, there's definitely a very emotional connection to the light (yes-mandy). At the end of the day, it's really moving you emotionally. yeah?
 
Mandy | Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, the most important part of my job is, is the storytelling element, and helping the director tell the story. So I always look at it um that way. I mean, the first thing I do when I read a script is I look at it storytellingwise, I don't say, "oh, and I could have a crane here, (hahaha- Vance) and I'll shoot this anamorphic" you know, I look at it in terms of story and talk to the director about that. And then I feel that, you know, the technical aspects of my job are secondary, you know, they come after that. So, when I'm trying to create an emotional take, or give the audience and experience of what's going on in the film, and for the characters, that comes more from a gut feeling and testing and working things out. But it does, as you say, it comes from an emotional background rather than technical.
 
Vance | Yeah you shot film for many years, as did I, and uh, you know, even today, and we are in a digital world, and we shoot film a little bit, happily to say, um but the value of shooting film, and you apply that technique, especially um exposure, I mean, we're looking at monitors, and that doesn't tell the whole story. So how is that for you? Do you rely on what you learned shooting film in the digital world?
 
Mandy | That's exactly what I do. Um, I don't use my meter anymore. Because I find that it doesn't always correspond to how the digital cameras react um in certain situations, so I don't use a meter. My gaffers always have a meter though, but it's more for matching, you know, whether if we're turning around to get the same ratios, or, you know, we're going along a line of windows to match up intensity of the lights, but I do exactly what you say. And the way that I used to light for film was by eye, you know, I'd first of all light by eye and then I'd get my light meter out, make sure the levels are okay, and be looking through the camera and lighting through the lens basically. so now I do do that, I do it by being on set and lighting by eye first and then going to the monitor and looking at it. But I also I still overexpose the image by about half to two thirds of a stop and then bring it down in the CDL because I think um when I get into the DI I like to give myself the option of opening the shadows or getting detail in the shadow areas and as long as I'm protecting my highlights that's how I approach it, which is how I shot film.
 
Vance | Yeah, I still like to expose a little fat and just keep that shadow detail and like you say keep your highlights clean. And, yeah. (YES- Mandy) And you know,certainly with the new ARRI cameras, like new Alexa 35 It's just like crazy.
 
Mandy | I know that new camera, I just did some testing on it. I spent a weekend doing some testing and it's amazing because I mean I still always rate Alexa at 800 ISO but with this new camera. (yeah- vance) You can just so easily push it right up to 3200 and it performs really well.
 
Vance | Yeah, it's very beautiful. I wanted to talk a bit about a previous film you shot called Hidden Figures.  I did read a little brief description well you got asked the question about how you achieved that Kodachrome look? Which is a look that I really love, I love the look at that film. Um, they really talked mostly about uh production design and wardrobe. And the color of the car when they get pulled over by the police and so on. did you do anything photochemically? Or did you apply it get more of that looking on the post side?
 
Mandy | I didn't do anything photochemically. I shot on Kodak negative. and I did tweak the colors and the look of it in the DI, that's how we did it. I did do some tests, and we never ended up in a place where, if we were um shooting reversal or, shooting cross processing reversal or something like that. I felt like I had more control to do it in the DI because in some scenes I could control the colors singularly and the contrast of certain areas and stuff like that. So yeah, I did it all in post.
 
Vance | Yeah, It's very beautiful. I love the way that film looks, and just the dynamic, the warm tones, as opposed to the cool tones at the NASA um area. It was really, really beautiful. Nigel, I think you have a question related to this?
 
Nigel | I do. I actually watched Hidden Figures for the third time yesterday. And it's so emotional for me, that film. Amazing. you mentioned just now, by the way that you would shoot at weekends, I once went to a lecture with uh Ken Russell, who directed Tommy and Women in Love and whatnot. And he said that when he started at the BBC. every third weekend, him and two of the other people who worked there who became well-known directors would borrow a Bolex from the BBC. And they only had enough money, each of them, to shoot 100 foot load and develop it. So that's how they learnt their directing skills was by borrowing a Bolex at the weekend. Which, extraordinary story. anyway, I'm just looking at your resume, I suddenly noticed a sort of a link that the common thread appears to be stories with a historical bend, you know, Shattered Glass, Australia, Hidden Figures, Mulan and now Elvis, they're all films which have a historical uh story. Uh, is this happenstance? Or have you sought out scripts which have a story from the past?
 
Mandy | that's an interesting, you point that out. I think it's more that I like to explore doing different challenges every time, you know? Every time I shoot - a movie, it's because the story interests me or it's something different. So I feel like it's not historical stories I seek out but it's different genres and different styles of filmmaking that I think that I do seek out and so that I end up going with a director that has a strong idea that maybe I haven't done before. So think it comes from that more than history.
 
Nigel | my question is begging an insight which you may care to not share with us. Do you do turn down a lot of scripts?
 
Mandy | Uh, yeah. [Nigel and vance laughs] and you know, for me, it's great. And Vance can tell you this I'm sure, it's similar for a lot of DPs, is that I do commercials in between. And so when I shoot commercials, I don't need to take a film for financial reasons, and I never want to have to do that. So it's always something that I'm passionate about or I believe in and I wait 'til something really good comes along. I have to say though if Baz Luhrmann offers me anything, I jump and he normally comes to me really early. So that's great. And I would always be there for him.
 
Vance | for Elvis, like six months ahead, yeah?
 
Mandy | oh more than that, nine! He brought me on like, I think the very first time we started talking was like nine months before we started prep, I think. and I was there for Austin's audition. You know, I come on super early.
 
Vance | we are going to talk about Elvis a little bit. You are nominated for an Academy Award for Elvis, one of three and two of those three women are actually Australian. So that's kind of cool.
 
Mandy | I know, and from Melbourne. And same with [inaudible] Fraiser - Which is so cool.
 
Vance | incredible work. I mean, for me coming out of a theatrical lighting background. , I have a huge love of light and the light in this film is absolutely incredible. It's like, "wow!" what I did notice you, obviously, you had three different types of lenses you basically used using. how did you decide to make these lens choices because you can really define the eras through the look of the film.
 
Mandy | well, every time I do a film for the last at least 10 movies, I always go in to Panavision start talking to Dan Sasaki, who's at Woodland Hills here in LA. And he's like, a master magician with lenses. And he also understands storytelling and aesthetics of lenses, not just purely um physical, technical aspects of them. And I took Baz in there, actually. Um, and we sat with Dan, and told him the story and said, you know, we want to represent these three different eras of American culture, the 50s, 60s, 70s. And he already had sort of a little selection of things for us to look at, and some suggestions. And when he came up with the sphero, we looked at few lenses, actually, but we settled on to the Sphero 65, and the anamorphic T series. but what we did was we also decided to shoot on Alexa 65, I remember I was talking about shooting on film, at some point, but then there were so many different looks we had to create and matching. And also obviously not shooting chronological order that it would have been um craziness, plus we'd get locked into things. So because there was some things we shot that we wanted to integrate into archival footage, that would not necessarily be the whole scene. So we decide Alexa 65 gave us the biggest scope. So we looked at the Sphero 65s.
 
Mandy | And then I think Dan went through like about three iterations of both of those series of lenses to get them to exactly what we wanted. And the Spheros took us through the 50s. And the 60s, and they're spherical lenses, but they sort of have a flatter look, but they're not super crunchy or contrasty. And I had him take that out and I had him make um the sort of I use the not soft, they're sort of of creamy and I can't think of a proper word to explain how they sit, but they're sharp, but they have very complementary to skin tones and, highlights and they're softer in the way they fall off in the contrast, and then the T series anamorphics, I had him put all the aberrations back in that would have been in the 70s. Because as everyone knows, these days, anamorphic lenses are a bit more kind of clinical and sharp and perfect. (yeah - Vance)So I had all those perfections taken out of the T series and the T series I think are from the 90s, anyway. So they're already old. and then yeah, we just got them to the right spot. And then the Petzval lens I had for an effects lens, which is the scenes where there's sort of dream sequences or flashbacks where we want to create like a vortex kind of feeling. (yep-Vance) And it has also vignettes a little on the camera. I can talk to Dan about emotion really, and I don't know what he does. And he has all these tricks. And one thing I said is, you know, I don't like the way modern lenses show that bokeh, on the out of focus highlights because, you know, you get those kind of the shape of the iris, you know, in the, in the shape of the things in the background. So he took that out. (WOW- Vance) And he also said for the 70s, I said, I want more, I want to push the colors, and I don't want the blue line flare, I want to have all the color put back into the flare. And he I don't know how he does it.
 
Vance | That's kind of magical.
 
Mandy | I know, and he won't tell you, either, how he does it. he keeps it secret because he's a magician. But so we went through about three iterations of those lenses to get them so that they could represent. And then that, mixed with the different lookup tables that we put on the looks for each,  each part of history, the beginning were the very, very particular color palette, not to contrasty, but a very restricted color palette for the 50s. And then the 60s, Hollywood, harder light, more rich, saturated colors. And then 70s were like that full range of the colors of Vegas with the pastels as well, you know, to integrate pastel colors and primary colors. So I felt like those two lenses gave us that range.
 
Vance | Yeah, I mean, I thought it really did evolve beautifully over time. And you really felt like you were in the era you were supposed to be in  Correct me if I'm wrong, the Sphero lenses that glass came out of lenses that we used to shoot Lawrence of Arabia? That's correct, right?
 
Mandy | Yes It did. Some of them have the actual glass.
 
Vance | Yeah, I mean, that's pretty, pretty awesome.
 
Mandy | I know. Yes, it's very special.
 
Vance | The great Freddy Young. Um, another thing i and then this came in the interview that you did with Lawrence that I thought it was important to talk about is the camera test, you had full wardrobe, full lighting, set elements, you know, I've never understood these camera tests where I see somebody standing with a color chart, I, I don't know what to do that. Can you speak to that a little bit because it's such silly thing.
 
Mandy | And I know Baz would never have like an actor standing in front of a gray piece of fabric, you know? He tries to get as much information out of those camera tests as possible. And same for me like, I want to look at our lenses, I want to look at the different lighting ideas, the colors that the softness, the hardness and how the lenses are performing. And then set our look up table. It's all these things. And then the art department get to look at t the colors of the set pieces and the costumes together. And, , we did quite a lot of testing on Elvis. I think we had like, probably 10 times we did a test , where we'd lock things in and some of the tests are in the film. they're used um in the montage sequences. So they're not wasted. (That's good- Vance) I mean, we shot in 93 days, with over 100 sets. And it's a big film. And some of those sets are gigantic.
 
Vance | The Beale Street set is crazy
 
Mandy | Its huge! And so we had to be very organized and just be really on point with all the different elements working together between all the departments, because you just never want to turn up and something was not working, or something was wrong, or we needed another thing, or I had to change some lighting. I never wanted to be in that position.
 
Vance |  No, I mean, shows made in the prep and being that well prepared, especially with the logistics, I mean, I look at the film I understand. I can see logistics, combination of obviously practical sets, VFX, lighting, you know, the fact that you used a 50 foot Scorpio to track the ferris wheel and things like that. you got to plan that stuff.
 
Mandy | Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yep. And a lot of cameras, we also had a lot of cameras
 
Vance | The cameras. [laughs] Nigel, I think you had a you had a question about this.
 
Nigel | Yes. Which sort of fits in nicely with with my question, actually, what you've just been talking about is that um the kind of work that I've done, I've never had the prep, never ever had the prep. So I mean, I've even shown own up where suddenly the story has been changed on me. So the prep that I do get, and I'm talking about 700 plus productions at this stage in my career, the prep I do get is when Vance and the AD come to me at 5:30 when I'm having my relaxing cup of tea at the end of the day, the day before, to tell me the order in which stuff is going to be shot. And I hate that conversation, when the AD comes to me. And he says, Well, I figured out the order in which we're going to shoot stuff, because I draw my own storyboards. I say you've seen the storyboard, you figure it out, and I'll just show up. So I'm watching Elvis, and it's quite early on in the movie, the scene before the Louisiana Hayride, where Kodi Smit-McPhee comes back with the Elvis record and puts it all in the tent, or the tented area. and obviously, Tom Hanks playing to Colonel Tom Parker, it's like, Oh, my God, this Who is this guy? So there's lots of camera moves, there's lots of coverage. And obviously, you're trying to get the impression that you know, the sun's low in the sky. So, I mean, did you shoot that over two or three days? I mean, I would always get to shoot a scene like that between 3:30 and sundown. So I'm trying to figure out when I'm going to shoot the close up the wide all the rest of it. So I mean, I presume you planned it over three or four days? And how did you go about that?
 
Mandy | No, We shoot it one day, (oh my god- Nigel) I know, but I had three cameras. And the other thing that we always did first of all, we'd walk around and look at the sets and go to the sets few times and as they're being built, make sure they're all going to work, I might have to make sure that tent is big enough and the height of it, the you know, the flats are in the right spots if I need to cut the sun, all that stuff, and then we block it with the actors um before, and and then work out couple of days before how we're going to shoot it. And um, that that was done pretty quickly. I mean, there's not a lot of stains that are day exterior in Elvis. So it was that Beale Street, some of Graceland, umm, that's really about it. that was an unusual scene for us, because we knew we had to work with the light. and I had three cameras there. I mean, I had three cameras all the time, there were a few um scenes, like for instance, you know, when Elvis is in the closet, when his mom dies, there's one camera there because you just physically can't get another one in. Sometimes we'd run two if we're in that, you know, the VistaLiner, which is the motorhome, because we might be able to get three in there. And then the concerts were four and, and five, some are four and some are five cameras. So I think just being planned and saying I've got three cameras running when we run this direction, and I hardly ever had to cross shoot. So we would run them all in one direction. Then as we turn around, we'd run them all in another or some would be on the side and stuff like that. So yeah, one day on a big movie like that. Yes, it was still only one day. [laughs]
 
Nigel | That makes me feel just a little bit better. [laughs] You still I mean, obviously when you were rehearsing, blocking, was that another day? Or was that the same day?
 
Mandy | Yeah, we went a couple of times, actually, probably three times we'd go as they were building the set, just to make sure because we shot all the night sequence in that location as well with the ferris wheel and everything. And then as it was taken apart, we did that tent sequence. So we sort of worked the other way around. We built it and then we pulled it down. so we would go quite a few times and go with on the weekend with Baz and the art department and the ADs and sometimes we'd take the grips, because as you were saying, if we're running that big crane on the ferris wheel, I have to make sure that we can get in there and get into the position that we need all that kind of stuff. so I mean, I just think it's such a big machine, a film like that, that if you're not prepared, you get really caught out badly and not shoot for half a day or something would be terrible.
 
Vance | Oh you could get in so much trouble, I mean, I could speak for days about the lighting on this film. It's so beautiful. something that really loved was the Russwood Stadium scene. the quality of that light was just it was almost electrifying, I think would be a term I'd say, the very crisp white backlight coming from the stadium lights. those stadium lights were those VFX and you had other lighting that would would create that source? Or were you using stadium lighting?
 
Mandy | That was a it's a good scene to talk about actually. because that set exterior in a baseball field. And for a really long time in prep, we were going to go outside and set that up and we were going to get, you know, big windy lights and Musco. Yeah, Musco lights. Yeah. And we were going to shoot it like that. And the weather in January, February, March. On the Gold Coast, that's the rainy season, we were really concerned that if we went out to a field, and we were shooting that in, and it rained, it will be mud. And we had 400 extras, So it would have been a disaster. And so we ended up shooting it on stage. (Oh wow! - Vance) And what I did was I,– yeah it was shot on stage. So what I did was, kind of trick your eye a bit in that I made up those lights with um Maxi brutes. So they're not as big, but they're in the same configuration. And then I dropped the depth of field and got the atmosphere to a certain place where it felt like they were further away. So they are real. They're just not as far away as you think they are. that was a real dance with VFX actually. Because I think they did such an amazing job in getting the background of the stadium to look right. And  the continuation of the audience, the extension of it and my lights. I think they added a couple occasionally, but most of the time they were in camera, and then I had um overhead ambient light, and then other lights augmenting what was going on. I think they were T 12s or something. and also, I would flip everything around when we change directions so that he would never be front lit by those hard lights. And sometimes I do that in camera.
 
Vance | I noticed that.
 
Vance | I hate front light like that too

Mandy | I know. I do too. and especially with that hard light. one of the big challenges for me on this movie was that we had to replicate these concerts like that, for instance, Rosswood the 68 special at NBC and the concert in the Hilton showroom. you know I had to do exactly replicate the shots, the camera angles, the lighting, but what I did is, I did like a very tricky dance between having hard horrible period lighting on someone's face or on the scenario. And I added my LED lighting to complement it. So, there's a fine line between it matching exactly, but looking more kind of cinematic and beautiful than what it really would have been. So again, I just had to do a lot of testing and, and working it out. And people you know, people like these TikToker have the footage side by side. I've made it sort of like that, but a bit nicer. But I think you get away with it, because you're still watching a drama, you know, and the characters and I didn't want to have like, because he would have had like black shadows on his eyes sort of thing

Vance | It would been horrible.
 
Mandy | Because everything was really high. So, it was kind of a tricky, challenge for me
 
Vance | I mean, I did see those clusters of PAR cans, scoops, 4K zips, right? And then a couple of shots there, I noticed. Okay, the lights on to high camera right are off. So obviously you've got them all on dimmers so as the cameras move around, you move on dimmers
 
Mandy | Exactly. That's exactly what I did. and I mean what's great about nowadays, you can have that on an iPad to you and walk around and be doing it really quickly. And I did it in camera sometimes too it's a difficult thing to do. But if you're subtle enough, it works and you can't see it. The backlight is tracking with the camera.
 
Vance | it's interesting. I mean, I think watching Vittorio Storaro was one of my heroes. He did a lot of stuff like that with moving dimmers. And it was so subtle you didn't see it. And I was like, I was looking for it. And I thought so you did an amazing job.
 
Mandy | Thanks! And much more difficult when he was doing it because he would have been doing with fresnels, it changes color as they dim and, you know, and having to change gels and things, at least when we were doing it with LEDs most of the time, it's so much easier to control the color and the intensity subtly.
 
Vance | Yeah, I remember Tucker, and there's a scene in the garage where they're working on the car. And there's a big argument, I forget who the protagonists are but there's sparks and fire everywhere. And the argument's raging, and there's this sun back light streaming through the windows. And over a course of about five or six minutes. And that's how long the sparks as the argument subdued, the light, slowly, but it was so slow and so subtle. And he's like, damn, I didn't even see that happen. But it happened.
 
Mandy | [laughs] He does beautiful stuff, Vittorio.
 
Vance | One thing I did notice a couple of times, and I could be wrong, but I thought I saw a 20k Mole Richardson beam projector in the shot
 
Mandy | You may well have. I did use them. But
 
Vance | In the NBC stuff, I think there was
 
Mandy | NBC, Yeah, yeah, you probably you're right. We used them.
 
Vance | But they do look vintage anyway, those lights
 
Mandy | They do yeah exactly. They have a similar housing that an old 20k fresnel did, yes
 
Vance | Now, with the International Hotel sequences, I gotta say that once we're at the end of the film, when we cut to Elvis singing, that was incredibly moving and sad. I mean, it was really emotional.
 
Mandy | Oh that last concert, you mean?
 
Vance | Yeah. Yeah. Very, very tragic. , I'm going back to Lawrence's interview, because it was really good. you talked about. Maybe your gaffer came up to you and asked you if you should maybe hire a rock and roll LD? Did you?
 
Mandy | No, I know, it was funny because it's Sean Conway is my gaffer who we've done about five or six movies together. And, he's worked with Baz with me a lot. And um I do remember in pre production, and he came in, he said, yeah, maybe we need to, because it's such a big setup, because we shot that on stage. Backstage, the stage, the whole audience section, done on one stage. and he said, Okay, I'll look into it tomorrow. And then, we both turn up at work the next day and went, "No, we can do this." And it was like, because I just think that every film, there's some challenge. There's something you haven't done before. And for me, I think, why not? Why can't we do this? So we did a lot of research, and we did testing and we did, you know, um got an amazing dimmer board operator in and, and so yeah, we did do it. And because we wanted to um mix with LED fixtures. I think that that was one of the points that we made that if we just got purely theatrical people, and we wouldn't be using the S60s and the 360s and um you know the ARRI lights. Um And also we used the new orbiters too, because they were kind of replicating what PAR Cans were doing. So we had a um lot of period lighting mixed with LED again. Um But yeah, we decided that we'd do it ourselves. And we did so I'm really proud.
 
Nigel | So Mandy, in the build up to this interview, Vance, and I constantly have a thing going because our cultures come from different ends of the planet. And so to understand the life that the both of you have led, I've been um doing my homework and watching a Netflix series called Outback Truckers, which has been very entertaining, fabulous photography, by the way.
 
Mandy | Oh, I've not seen this.
 
Nigel | So I don't think, you need to see it. [laughs] But I've been enjoying it. It's very funny. It says a lot about the Australian dental system. Um, anyway, the crucial final question, which I sense that you will never be asked ever again. And it's a very important question for Vance and myself on the show that we run. Is that if you were blindfolded, could you tell the difference between Marmite and Vegemite?
 
Mandy | Yes.
 
Nigel | Mandy, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. [laughs] It's been wonderful to chat with you. I know you've probably done 1000 interviews these last few weeks, and we're so grateful that you chose to take to go off the road and join us for a while before you go back on the main road.
 
Mandy | And you ask questions I haven't been asked before, so that's great.
 
Nigel | Oh, fantastic. Great. Okay. Good.
 
Vance | Hey, you know, you know why that is Nigel. Marmite tastes like shit. [laughs] Mandy, thank you so much.
 
Mandy | Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks, guys.

[music]
 
Nigel | I think we need more questions. What are your thoughts?
 
Vance | I think we should definitely have more questions. It's a lot of fun to answer. And I love questions. I like to share things that I've learned over the years
You can follow us at Two Stops Over podcasts, and on Instagram, Tik Tok or Facebook, just leave us a message And we might invite you on the show and answer it live.
 
Nigel | And just in case there's a line of people, if you wish to bribe us that will obviously help lift you to the front of the line. So just a quick hint there but yeah, bring us some questions.
 
Vance | You can send cash to me at Venmo, Hahaha (all)