Vance | Hey Nigel, welcome to Two Stops Over everyone. How are you today man?

Nigel | I'm very good. I'm very confused. I have a list of things we have to talk about which involve a girl band, you, a chap with a camera and a large outdoor stadium north of New York. Could you explain more, please?

Vance | Well, yeah I'm going to talk a lot about me. Bit about how I started my career, from various projects that mostly you and I have worked on together over the years, and some rock and roll bands I've worked for, and I want to give a little bit of a mini masterclass about shooting live multicam concert films.

Nigel | And, I understand we're also going to talk about a very fast supersonic jet and a small Australian man in schoolboy outfit.

Vance | Today's guest is a very much an icon in the world of live music, it's photographer and director Danny Clinch.

Nigel | Who I've never met I'm looking forward to this.

[music]

Nigel | I was just given a present of the Brian Johnson autobiography, Brian Johnson being the second lead singer in AC DC. And it's a fantastic read, because he's from Newcastle. He's very honest. And a little bird, actually rather large, smelly bird has told me that you have a history with AC DC too.

Vance | Well, yeah, I have a little bit of history with those guys. I mean, my career started in Australia. For reasons, it's a much longer story, I ended up having to get a job at 14 years old and I was working in a tire shop as part of that. And the other part of that was I was working in a theater part time in as a gofer in a lighting department. And we actually was working on a production of Gypsy which was a very famous sort of musical stage play. And what was amazing to me is that we were working this small theater, and they could not afford scenery, or sets. So what was so beautiful about that experience was the fact that they were able to just create this whole atmosphere in this world that told this story, using nothing but light and shadow, sort of creating this world for the performers to perform this play. And that's when I really fell in love with light. From that, friend of mine had a little band and he asked me to come in and do his lights for him. And we literally had six PAR cans, what looked like a regular power strip, but each outlet had had a switch on it. So I could switch on and off all the six lights alternatively. which at the time, I thought was just fantastic. I kind of met up with people working in the Rock and Roll industry in Australia that was kind of blossoming in that period, in the live music world. Started working on various road crews and very quickly I got myself as a job as an LD for a touring band. I did that and then luckily I also picked up the job of lighting designer for an Australian band called Cold Chisel who were pretty iconic over there at the time.

Vance | Anyway, 1982 they landed up doing a farewell tour. Tell you how crazy it was. We sold out Sydney Entertainment Center five nights in two hours. And that's no online, that's just phone sales. You know, that's a 18,000 seat venue. So in a city of 4 million people it's kind of crazy. So anyway, we finished that tour up. And that was the end of that. And I got hired by INXS. And I ended up doing a couple of world tours with them, landed up in the United States. We opened for some for the Gogos for a few shows.

Vance | And at the end of that tour after doing a final show at the Hollywood Palladium, I got a call from Tom Kipper, who was the tour manager for the Gogos. And apparently, Gina, I believe, had just fired the lighting designer. And they'd asked me if I would come and take over. And really that's how I got to stay in America. I said yes. And I toured America and came off the road and eventually landed up working for SIR who had a stage which you and I are very familiar with, which was Stage 3. But at that time, I was running a lighting system for SIR, Gary Clemmer at SIR. One day I walked on that stage SIR stage three, and I believe that they were shooting a James Taylor video, the gaffer's name was Jim McEachin. And he asked me. "Do you know any electricians?" I said, Well, I know rock and roll lighting, it's just lights. I can come and work with you. And that was my launch into the film industry.

Vance | Two years later, I became a director of photography. Thanks to yourself, Nigel with shooting the video for Angela Wimbush. But yeah, it was very rapid transition. Mostly because in those days, film industry knew nothing about truss or multipin cables and concert lighting in general. MTV was exploding with heavy metal videos, as you well know. And I knew how to design and run concert lighting systems. And so that was definitely an asset. When I was a gaffer, I designed a system for Janet Jackson's Control, for example, which is a massive lighting system. And I think it still holds up today actually. But generally speaking, that was the way I got in and opened the door for me, just because I knew so much about that particular area of lighting.

Nigel | You've missed out the AC DC part.

Vance | Well, I did do some shows with AC DC in Australia, with Cold Chisel, and AC DC. And of course, I used to go and watch them very early on. Before I was in the industry, actually, they used to play at this club called Chequers in Sydney, was down in kind of a basement club and maybe there'd be like 40 people in the room. You know, Angus would show up straight from school, in his school uniform. And then you had Bon Scott to me who was by far the greatest singer for AC DC. I mean barefoot and the energy in that room was always incredible with them live.

Nigel | Brilliant.

Nigel | So one day, I get a call. And I find myself working with a band called Great White. And their manager's name is Alan Niven. And he says, I've got this other band, and very long story short. The other band was Guns N Roses, and I wound up shooting. Welcome to the jungle. And I believe you were the gaffer on that right?

Vance | I was the gaffer and you had me operate a camera on the live performance section. And if you remember, there's quite an amusing telecine story attached to that also.

Nigel | There is quite a story. But I think we've got the facts wrong in that. I asked you to become an operator in that you were down on your hands and knees begging to become an operator on that show.

Vance | Actually, that is absolutely correct. I was groveling. I am like come on, come on Nigel.

Nigel | So people in the world, knowing the only way to keep him quiet was to let him loose on a camera. And I gave him a roll of film and sent him away. Leave me alone. Anyway, so then we get asked to do another video for them. And this would be sweet child of mine. And in the interim, I guess because you had some dirt on me or something I'd given you your first Director of Photography job. And then I guess you have even more dirt on me. So I said, well, why don't you shoot Sweet Child of Mine. And you're actually in the video. In fact, we're both in the video, I'm in the video for one millisecond. And you're in the video for sort of 10 milliseconds. And you know, we shot we shot and shot and shot and then it was all over on TV and it changed their career, I think.

Vance | And certainly mine. it was sort of thing that makes you flavor of the month and you know, I think we both worked a hell of a lot after shooting that thing

Nigel | Well, the thing that was interesting is that I got all these phone calls from other bands managers and their comment was please make my singer look like Axl. Which is a very interesting concept of course because he can't make anybody look like anybody else and, and what it comes down to is Axl is Axl is Axl and I would just you know, go sure yeah, I'll do that. But you couldn't you just have to do the very best that you could.

Vance | Yeah. And you know and then we went on after that to shoot I think Patience was after that and then followed by

Nigel | Paradise City was before Patience

Vance | Paradise City was before Patience. Okay, so we went on to shoot Paradise City before we shot Patience but that was quite the adventure, Nigel.

Nigel | Well, it was quite the adventure because Tom Zutaut who'd signed the band asked me to shoot another of his bands the day before in Memphis. So I showed up in the middle of the night, which is a whole other story for another day. So the, the vibe was that somebody was going to get on a plane and fly to England and shoot the band at the Donington Festival. And who was it who got to go on the Concorde? It was not me.

Vance | No, it was myself. Remember William Anders Lee, he was a PA English PA. He didn't fly with us on the Concorde, but came to England and assisted me. But let me back up a little bit, while you were arriving in the middle of the night. Myself, Rick Osbourne and at some point in the night Slash were having a fine old time running around New York City most of the night, only to get up in the morning. Don't shake your head Nigel.

Vance | Only to get up in the morning. And it being 95 degrees and 100% humidity, it felt like, at Giants Stadium, so it was kind of a painful endeavor. But anyway, moving back to Donington, we're on the bus William came with me. I basically had two Bolex cameras and a bunch of film. I would shoot out one Bolex, during the performance I'd hand it on to William and he'd reload a camera. He'd reload that. And I'd shoot the next one. After the shoot went back to London, where I dropped all these 100 foot daylight spools of Bolex footage off. And then I disappeared into the night with William for three days, never to be heard from for many, many days. I went back to the hotel, after I think three days of whatever I was up to... And there was a red flashing light on my phone, remmeber the hotels used to have a phone and there'd be a red flashing light when you have a message? Of which there was many, many messages from the producer Lisa Hollingshead asked me where the fuck are you Vance? [laughs] And where the fuck is our film? I'm like, well, maybe you should call the lab but it's at the lab, I called her back, I check the lab. As as much of a lunatic as I was back then. I always got my job done. And I didn't lose film or anything like that. But once that was over off, I went into whatever mischief I could get into.

Nigel | Meanwhile, while you're out in the darkness, doing whatever you're doing, my phone suddenly starts ringing. And people said, are you okay? And I would say yeah, why? And during the Guns and Roses show two people were trampled to death. And one of them had my last name. So people oh, yeah.

Vance | So I didn't know that

Nigel | His name was John Dick or Fred Dick or whatever. And so people knew I'd done some Guns and Roses videos. So they were asking if basically if I was still alive, so I in the middle of the night sometimes I wake up and I wonder if if the fickle Finger of God had decided that somebody, a "Dick" in inverted commas, in the audience was going to die and because I didn't get to go I was saved.

Vance | Ohh, you know, obviously, I was very aware of the incident. I did get interviewed after that by the authorities about that event, but also umm, I certainly was aware of problems because it had been raining there. You know, it's 100,000 people, it was a mud pit. Everybody was sliding down the front and piling on top of each other. At one point, I believe the show was stopped and Axl did get people to calm down. But yeah, that was pretty horrific to hear about that, which I really didn't find out about it until I got back to London. But there was one other sort of entertaining moment on that trip speaking of the Concorde. So as you remember, you know back in 1989, whenever it was 88, Getting out onto an airport tarmac was not such a big deal. We were at Washington Dulles, and we wanted to get some shots of the band walking up actually an exterior stairway onto the Concorde.

Vance | Which is in the video and I think there is a shot of Slash walking up the stairs in silhouette. I'm on the tarmac with the Bolex. Of course, what you don't see in the video is the two airport police cars with lights flashing, screaming to a hault right at the bottom of the stairs and the gate which this was all going on at. Hmm what's going on here? I walk inside, and I didn't see the event happen... But there was some interaction between a passenger and Axl that was less than pleasant. And I believe there was some discussions with the authorities and the passengers are involved and things would smoothed over so we got to fly to London on the Concorde, which was really I didn't care about the thing. I just wanted to fly on the Concorde. Dammit.

Nigel | So did I. You've got to imagine there's some poncey businessman, you know, who's earning millions every year. And then some kid with long hair wanders in wearing leather pants. Ahaha.

Vance | Speaking of musicians, today's guest is music photographer Danny Clinch.

Vance | He's someone that really understands musicians and has built a rapport with many of them over the years.

Vance | allowing him to capture moments that most people don't get to see

[music]

Vance | So everyone I want to welcome this week's guest. He's a good friend, someone I've had the joy of working with over the last 16 years. He's also known as a legendary rock photographer and filmmaker. But there's a lot more to him than that. Welcome, Danny.

Danny | Well thanks for having me.
Vance | Good to have you, man. Nice to see you as always.

Danny | Yeah.

Vance | So Danny, I just want to start with the basic question for listeners who don't know you. How did you start your career? And when did you first pick up a camera and realize that this was probably your calling?

Danny | Well [dog barking] [laughs] Oh thank you Louie. If you'd like me to translate that I can. So what Louie was trying to say was that

Danny | my mom always had a camera. And she was always taking pictures. We call her the snapshot queen. She's still taking photos all the time. And um, and we have always had music in the house. And it sort of was like a thing that kind of converged together at some point, but I got my first camera.

Danny | You know, I loved art as a kid, you know, music and art was always important to me. And uh I got a camera, like a little garage sale down the street. I remember going around the back of the person's house, and they had a blanket laying out in the backyard and all these, like little knickknacks and things were there and there's this little Keystone classic 126 format camera there. And I ended up buying it, I was very young, probably six or so. So, that got me started.

Danny | And then, you know, a buddy of mine, who was a very adventurous kid, got a job, when he was really young, and he you buy like, he bought a guitar when he was like 15. And then he bought a, a camera, a nice 35 millimeter camera. But he was- he wasn't using it. So I borrowed it from him. And I started, uh taking photographs and really sneaking into any concerts that I was going to and photographing. And at certain point in my life, when my parents were asking me what it was I wanted to do, and what direction was I heading in, I decided to settle on photography, and went to a community college in town, then went to school in Boston, New England School of Photography. And, it was a great experience for me. Boston's a great town. So that's that's the beginnings of it right there.

Nigel | So you've picked up your camera for the first time. Did you have any heroes at this point? Did you start looking at other people's photographs, or how did that develop?

Danny | Yeah, I was into Rolling Stone and Interview Magazine back then. So I was looking at Annie Leibovitz and Herb Ritts and Matthew Rolston. And then I started to get into documentary photographers. I was turned on to Robert Frank, and Danny Lyon, folks like that. And I really love that sort of spontaneity in the work and Annie's early work, which was very documentary in nature was incredible, and is incredible. And to this day, I love her work and, you know, just looking at captured moments and spontaneous composition, was very appealing to me, and I liked the looseness of it and the freedom of those sort of things.

Vance | Danny, they call you a rock photographer. Um, but you've shot every genre of music in your career, and you had a long run early in your career shooting hip hop. I also went through that with the music videos in the 90s. Can you talk to how it was for you in that time and what the scene was like? And did you have any favorite shoots? It was a crazy time, right?

Danny | Oh, yeah. It was an interesting time because the opportunity for me came through Spin Magazine, I had uh assisted Annie Leibovitz, I started as an intern at her studio, I went to Ansel Adams Gallery workshop, and I met Annie and her assistant, Dave Rose. And they invited me out to intern there. So when I finished, assisting other photographers, I had met, through some friends, a woman named Elizabeth Gruber, who was one of the assistant photo editors at Spin Magazine, and they gave me my first kind of big assignment, photographing 3rd Bass, the hip hop band, through that relationship with MC Serch, he was in the band. I started taking my work to Def Jam and to the various record labels to see if I could get some work. Of course, I was young, I wasn't expecting to get much, but hip hop was starting to come up and the photographers that were, normally shooting for the record labels, the Annie Leibovitz and, Matthew Rolston and Herb Ritts of the world. Albert Watson, you know, weren't necessarily shooting these hip hop gigs for album covers. They just I think people thought it was a fad, and they weren't sure what was going to happen.

Danny | And I threw my hat in the ring and I said, I'm ready to photograph and I met the two guys at the drawing board which is Def Jam Records, creative team, Cey Adams and, Steve Carr. I found out they were same age as me, you know, loved music, loved art, we really connected and they started giving me some assignments. But one of my, favorite assignments came through MC Serch who said, I've just got a record deal for this artist and I helped them get signed and, and that and I think your style is going to be really fitting for this artist because he really wants it to be a documentary in nature and photograph where he where he's from, and it was the Nas Illmatic album. And he gave me the tape, the time he was called Nasty Nas and I took the tape into the dark room with me. And played it in the dark room and just heard this record that was very cinematic, and really just incredible storytelling, very poetic.

Danny | And I went out to Queensbridge and did the album packaging and it was, it was incredible. It was a great moment for me in my career. You know, to document Nas in where he was from, was very fitting for that record. And subsequently I've worked with him a bunch since, but that was my kickoff and then I think my first album cover was Lord Finesse Return of the Funky Man. And then I did Redman record, I did the Old Dirty Bastard record cover. I did Kanye's first record, College Dropout and just many, many more. You know, Capone-N-Noreaga, and I could just go on and on.

Vance | There is that one, iconic photo of Tupac Shakur. Can you talk about that a little bit? I'm sure you've talked to this to death, but it's just such an amazing shot.

Danny | So I got this assignment to photograph Tupac from Rolling Stone. At the time, they weren't doing much, if any, hip hop. Tupac had just uh done Poetic Justice, he had a new record coming out, he had gotten in some trouble. And they wanted to, you know, do a shoot with him. And it was like a quarter page type thing. It was a small shoot that he showed up at the my loft in New York City down in Tribeca. At the time everybody was showing up with like a, you know, big group of people, huge entourage, you know, a big party...

Vance | Remember that.

Danny | ...would come rolling in, which was fun. But he showed up with one other guy, bag of clothes. He was on time, he was very professional, super cool. And we got to takin' some photos. And he said, "Well, you know, maybe we should, change some clothing, give Rolling Stone some other options." And, of course, I was like, wow, okay, he was really attentive to what, you know, what we were doing. And he took his shirt off to change into another shirt, and I saw all his tattoos. And I said, "we should really do a couple without your shirt on." And he was like, "Sure." And that's what's become the legendary photograph, in my opinion, of him, which they, in fact, used on the cover of Rolling Stone when he passed away. He was really fun to be around. He was very professional. You know, he was a theater kid from my understanding, you know, he came up and studied acting and I think he was just very determined He loved the camera, the camera loved him. Collaborations with people, they can be really big, or they can be very subtle. And I felt like this was a very subtle collaboration, but very strong. He was really giving back in a very in a very unique way. And it shows in the photographs.

Vance | Danny, we've worked together on a few projects over the years, uh commercials, live shows, music videos. The producer for this show, and my partner, which actually I met, working with you, produces for you, besides being a friend for many, many years, she met you when she was 15. That's kind of insane. But that's another story we'll talk about later. But at a certain point, you started making films, which is a very different discipline, but the film work still maintains the intimacy of your still photographs. How did that translate for you? And how was the learning curve?

Danny | Yeah, it was interesting, I met Lindha, when she was really young, and she, is an adventurous person. And she went off and explored the world at one point. And we, you know, circled back around when she came back to New York City, and she wanted to do film work. And I was looking for help at the studio. And she came in as an assistant, and just a producer, and just a friend, you know. And she knew I wanted to do some, some film work. And I did like a small music video for my buddy, Bob Delevante. And shot it on a small little Sony camera the size of like a cigarette pack. And, I just said, you know, let's just go out and do something fun, and create some cool images, which we did. And then I did my first documentary on Ben Harper called Pleasure and Pain. And one of the things that I learned about filmmaking and being a cinematographer, as well, is that you are, shooting a moving image, and there's a story to be told within that image.

Danny | And I was shooting as a still photographer, you know, I was like going up to the face and be like, Oh, stay there for a minute, then I go to the hands, 'cause that's part of the story, sure. And then I go over here to the feet, and then I'm shifting my composition. And, you know, at a certain point, we went back to our editor who was starting to pull the project together, Sam Lee. And she said, "Danny, you got to just find your frame and hold it, let the story happen in the frame," you know, and that was one of the biggest lessons I learned. But, you know, it is all storytelling And, you know, my still photography, informed my filmmaking, and my filmmaking, uh informed my still photography, so. It was interesting, you know.

Vance | I was looking at your book Still Moving yesterday, Danny. It's been a while since I've looked at it, but I thought I would like absorb it. Wow. I mean, the images are just so powerful. And I seriously got goosebumps. And I've known you for a few years now, and the book reminded me just how incredible your work is. There's a shot of Tom Waits on a carousel that I just love. Also the shot on the back cover of him. And now I assume it's the same shoot. Can you talk about that day? I know Tom's a very private person.

Danny | Yeah. Yeah, those are actually two different shoots actually.
Vance | Oh really?

Danny | And I'm honored to have photographed him. He is one of my favorite people to photograph. He's so creative. He's such a great collaborator. The carousel photo, was really funny because we were supposed to shoot in San Francisco and I got a call from his publicist and she said, "Hey, um Tom, is wondering if you would come up to Santa Rosa. And photograph him because he promised his son and his nephew that he would take them to the fair, to the county fair. And wants to know, if you want to go to the county fair." I was like are you kidding me? Tom Waits? Hell yeah! Sign me up! [laughs] And so she said, "Oh, he's gonna call you to talk about it." And I was like, "Okay." So my phone rings, it's Tom, you know, "Danny, how you doing?" You know, just a little low key, you know, kind of vibe, "and I hope you don't mind, you know, going to the, to the fair, I thought it could be fun." And I like, oh, man, it's gonna be great. I said, I imagine, let's get up in the ferris wheel and look over the fair. And he's like, Oh, no, no, no, I'm not. I'm I'm afraid of heights. I'm not getting on the Ferris wheel, [laugh] I was like, Oh, okay. How about the carousel in the house of mirrors? He was like, Yeah, that sounds great.

Danny | So we go there. And in that photograph, for those who don't know, Tom is on this crazy sea serpent carousel horse with a with a plastic orange water pistol gun in his hand. And as we were trying to get into the fair, he decided he was just going to keep the the orange water pistol tucked into his waistband. And I suggested he hide it in his jacket. And he's like, Oh, no, it'll be fine. So of course, we get up, he buys his ticket, and the woman says, oh, you know, you can't go in with that water pistol, you know, he's just a water pistol. It's just plastic, she goes, No, you're gonna have to take that back to your car. So we're like, Oh, geez. And we walk, we walk around the corner. And Tom takes this little toy, you know, water pistol, and he puts it in his inside his jacket, pocket.

Danny | And we go back to the ticket taker, you know, to get through the and the, you know, they have like a little metal detector there, which we knew it wasn't gonna go off. But Tom is all nervous about going through, you know, with this little water pistol, and he's spilling out all his change, he can't find his ticket now. And he's just like, oh, no, I can't find my ticket. And he's all nervous, he spilled his change in his wallet, and all this stuff in his pockets out onto the table, he finally finds a ticket we get in. And, of course, we get to the carousel. And I was like, well hop on the carousel, and, you know, take a couple runs around, and I'll get some photos of you as you come around. This is pre-digital, too. And, you know, people that have shot film, know, the limitations. Once you're past 800 ASA, you know, you're you're pretty much in trouble. So he hops on the carousel, and I'm shooting with my Hasselblad. And the camera, when you look into it, is backwards, it's flipped. So he's coming around one way, and I'm looking the other way. And I'm trying to figure out what's happening. And then I decided just to focus on where he's gonna be, and just like, look at him and try to catch it.

Danny | And just as he comes around, he pulls out this water pistol and starts firing it off. And of course he jumps on this weird sea serpent, instead of like a classic horse, which was really funny. And, I got, I got the moment, and it's really, it's got some movement to it, it's just really, it's really beautiful. And we had a great time kicking around the fair and going to the sledgehammer bell thing and going into the house of mirrors, and I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to dive into those house of mirrors photos, because I don't really have them out into the world yet, but uh, but it was so much fun. And the other photograph that's on the back of my Still Moving book is from a shoot we did, um where Tom showed up with a trunk full of old speakers, and bullhorns, and record players, and anything with a speaker. And we built this huge pile of speakers and then we we plugged in his guitar and he was jumping off the chair and into the air and you know, and just he was just so much fun to work with. And we ended up doing a video called "Lie to Me." And it was all still photographs, of him dancing around this, this situation which is really funny, and you should check it out. It's a really cool video and it was all done with stills because Tom was like, "Man, we should do a video here. It'd be so cool!"

Danny | And this was before you had like a 5D where you could just fire up the video, or even a phone. I could have done it on a phone, right? But this is before that. And I said well I got a 35 millimeter camera and we can just burn some film through this. And he was like, Okay. And then the editor, when I came back to the editor, and I said, So listen, you know, we're gonna do this video and it's gonna be stills, and you know, I shot it all like this and that and they're like, okay, okay, great. So, so uh, so you are on a tripod, right? And I was like, uhhh. And they were like, Well, you were standing in one, the same spot? And uh... No, ohh, not really, like, Oh, Jesus, what the hell am I gonna do with this? And I told Tom and Tom was like, you know, we were just like, well, it's gonna be really kind of, you know, fucked up or whatever. And he was like, "Great!"
[laughs]

Vance | Well I actually have a copy of that that you shared with me. And it's awesome. It is so cool. And you couldn't do that on a 5D or an iPhone. I mean, the fact that what you did there is kind of a little bit of magic, so...

Danny | Yeah, happy accident.

Vance | Now, you're also one of the founding partners of Sea Hear Now, which is a music festival in Asbury Park, New Jersey. What has that been like? How was this year? And any awesome experiences?

Danny | Oh, man.

Danny | The Sea Hear Now, idea was myself and Tim Donnelly, a friend of mine had always said how cool it would be to do a music festival, on the beach on the Jersey Shore. You know, we're both bodyboarders and we grew up around the ocean, in and around the surf community. So, we thought, hey, we can pitch this to, you know, some of our friends, you know, see what happens. So the idea was music, of course, musicians who surf, musicians who make art, and a great festival on the beach in Asbury Park.

Danny | Our first year was Jack Johnson, Ben Harper, G Love, folks like that, that were surfers and artists. And we're now in our fifth year, our fourth show, we lost one to COVID. And this year was one of the best we had Green Day. And we had Stevie Nicks, Gary Clark Jr. We had My Morning Jacket, Cage The Elephant. It was just really, really special. We had Wet Leg, Fletcher, a nice variety of artists, for young and old. And we try to leave a clean footprint there. And we try to give back to the community as well. And we have all these jam sessions and stuff at night. Just take over Asbury Park for two or three days. And it's really phenomenal.

Vance | So Danny, you, myself and Lindha, were in Sao Paulo, Brazil shooting a commercial at Lollapalooza a few years ago. And we were wrapping up and we went up to this sort of area upstairs and we're just sort of wrapping up and then all of a sudden, I look up and here's you in front of 100,000 people playing blues harp with the Foo Fighters. I mean, which was incredibly cool. Not only were you playing but you're a badass harp player. Now, I've known this to happen fairly regularly. Umm, tell me a little bit about you playing blues harp and is there anyone you want to play with next?

Danny | Ahahah, Oh man, well, I love music and I do love the blues. But I I got an opportunity. Of course, I made a film called All I Can Say about Shannon Hoon, who was in Blind Melon. And the Blind Melon guys are big friends of mine and Lindha worked on that project with me and, Taryn Gould and Colleen Hennessy. And to get back to the blues harp thing. You know, I had a harmonica and I played a little bit, and I was at a Blind Melon show and, I mentioned it to the band. I was like, you know, I played some harmonica because Shannon played harp, and so did Christopher. And Shannon was like, oh, cool, well you should come up and you jam with us. And I was like, oh, no, no, no I don't wanna go. It was Blind Melon, Soundgarden and Neil Young. So, I'm like, I am not going up and playing some harmonica in front of these guys.

Danny | So, anyway he's like, oh yeah, come on, I was like, No man, I was like, I played my harmonica like, at a barbecue once. You don't want me coming up and playing in front of all these people and Shannon says, "Ahh man. It's all just one big barbecue, you got to come up and play with us, right?" I'm like, Oh, lord. Okay. So we did a little jam. And I was like, I felt pretty good, you know, and they have this one song called Change, and then he would like break it down into like, a Dear Mr. Fantasy bluesy kind of kind of moment, and said, You just can play right in there. And I was like, okay, you know if you have the right harmonica, and you're in the right key, like you can get by. And I went up there, and I had the time of my life, I had so much fun, and we all were laughing at how funny it was, that I was, you know, out there with them playing and afterwards, I was like, Okay. And, you know, they started asking me all the time, like, oh, when you come to the next gig, you know, we're gonna jam, you know, and I was like, okay, so I started to really, practice a little bit more, and I started, taking some lessons stuff. And, and I just, like really got into it.

Danny | And then I met up with another bunch of guys, 'cause I was doing their album packaging, a band that was called Dangerman, my buddy, Chris Scianni and Dave Borla. Turned out that they loved to have blues jams, and they were jamming all the time. So they invited me out to play with them. And, we are doing these late night jams all the time. And we started this band called The Tangiers Blues Band. And we started to play around New York City, and now we'd been playing almost 30 years together. And it's really fun. But therefore, because I've been playing so much harmonica, and you can keep one in your, in your pocket, you know, a couple in your bag. People start, say, hey, come up and jam with us, you know. And, and the Foo Fighters were one of the first after Blind Melon. And Dave just thought it was really funny. And like, he's like, yeah, man come up and jam with us. And I would play on this Stacked Actor song. And, in fact, when I made a Foo Fighters concert film called Skin and Bones, while they were recording the record, I stopped by the studio.

Danny | And they were they were making the making the record in your honor. And they had a song. Dave said, I got this song, you have some harps. And I said, Yeah, I got some harps out in the car. And he's like, yeah, so this is the key. And, you know, I haven't really recorded the vocals yet or finished the lyrics. But like, it's a great little song, called Another Round, and you should get on it and like, play some harp. So I did. And I ended up on the record, which was incredible to me. And then when I was making this concert film, Dave was like, Well, you gotta come up and play the harp on this, ahaha, on this tune. And then I go out there. And of course, he makes fun of me for directing the film and being in it, you know, which he's good at. And it was really, it was really, really fun.

Danny | So, I've sat down with Willie Nelson. And I've sat in with G Love and Pearl Jam, you know, and Eddie Vedder a bunch of times. 

Nigel | So you, you've you've worked with this amazing range of artists, right across the board, as you say, from Willie Nelson to rap guys and whatnot. So there must have been one job where you walked in, and the artist really surprised you by either being very eloquent about I don't know, renaissance art or being completely dumbstruck and saying nothing. I mean, can you remember some time where suddenly you were not sideways by an artist that you've not worked with before?

Danny |  Working with Bruce Springsteen has been, one of the great joys of my life. He's such a great collaborator, and he's a guy who is, is a student of rock and roll. He could talk about any album cover and any, music film, concert film, any artist. So, we have a lot of similar references that we get to when we when we do a photo shoot, and I'll pull a mood board together and send it out to him and, and that's been really fun as well.

Danny | The same with my Bob Dylan shoot that I did. I did two Dylan shoots, and I remember the first shoot I did with him, his publicist called me and said, "Do you know that little Walter record, you know, the one where he's holding the harmonica and he's, you know, it's like, that's hollywood lighting type thing?" I was like, of course, I'm a harmonica player, you know. And Dylan showed up, and we had a really great location, we were at the Ambassador Hotel, which is now torn down. But it was the best location ever, and there was a lot of history there. And Dylan is quite a history buff. So that is actually a great example. When you get a one on one with him, he is a different person than I believe that you would think he is and was very tuned in, super smart, really direct, really clear thought. A great collaborator, had, you know, contributed great ideas. And, and, in fact, he's got this bootleg series coming out. And it was during the era that I did photograph him which is time out of mind and love and theft. And I think the time out of mind stuff is they're using quite a bit of my photographs, which is really super cool for- for me.

Nigel | You've worked with the most notoriously grumpy man in rock and roll. Mr. Van Morrison. And two of my buddies managed him separately on separate occasions, and were both fired and I have a couple of Van Morrison stories of my own. How was that?

Danny | Ahahaha, Oh, it was just like you would expect it It was awesome. Musically I'm a huge Van Morrison's fan. Love that music. And to have the opportunity to film him at the Ryman was was incredible. In all the films that I make, like I try to come up with a really cool opening sequence that just has a nice little story to it. And I often will shoot, whether I'm shooting digital or not, I'll often shoot Super8 or, you know, Bolex, and really set the tone of the warmth and the beauty of the analog in the beginning and, I wanted to get in there with my Bolex and do some filming of him. You know, before he hit the stage, and, you know, we were getting nowhere, trying to get backstage with him.

Danny | And finally, they agreed they said, Okay, you know, come on back, backstage here for a minute. He said, you can come back so we walk in and, and, you know, I tried to exchange a little bit of pleasantries or whatever, and I could see that that wasn't getting me anywhere. Ahaha. And then I said, well, well, then, you know, we just want to document you backstage here getting ready in that and so, um, would you mind just, you know, maybe checking your look in the mirror a little bit. I like this kind of double shot with the mirror and I got this cool camera, this Bolex or whatever. And he just looked at me and he says, I don't like mirrors. And I was just kind of stumped you know, I was like, okay, well, oh yeah, well look at the camera then.

Nigel | The only time I've met him, I was working for a record label. And I was tasked with making Van Morrison do a video which he did not want to do. So I had a 30 minute conversation with him in my office. How about this guy? No. How about this guy? No. Do you like videos? No. And eventually he said, Look, if I'm gonna make a video, I know who I want to direct it. And I'm like, yes. I'm getting close. I'm going to deliver. I'm going to deliver. I said, Okay, Mr. Morrison, and who's that Orson Welles.

Danny | Oh my God, I love it. It's too funny.

Nigel | And I say I failed in my tasks because Olson died two months later.

Danny | Oh, he was still alive. I thought.

Nigel | Oh, yeah. Well, and Van had actually met him.

Danny | Oh, wow.

Nigel | Because he knew him through the BBC omnibus team, I think. But he was deadly serious. He wanted Orson Welles to make a video for him. But I'm afraid I did not have Orson on my rolodex. So I failed.

Vance | So Danny, I one thing, last thing I'd like talk about gonna wrap this up soon. But you have this very, very cool gallery in Asbury Park called the Transparent Gallery. It's been there a while now and it's evolved. And a couple of questions. Actually. This is a question from Nigel. Number one is, why is it called the Transparent Gallery? And also, can you tell me a bit about it and what inspired it? It's just got this great vibe. I've been there a few times. And I really love being in there. So if you share a little bit about that'd be great.

Danny | Yeah, so it's the Transparent Clinch Gallery as we kind of like, settled on that. The funny thing about it is like, we're supposed to be just a pop up. And it's this incredible space. It's got this atrium at the end of a building that's all glass enclosed. And it's like 30 feet ceilings, it's really, really beautiful. So when we got the opportunity, we're like, it's going to be like a three month pop up, the people who own the building, you know, it's a hotel called the Asbury Hotel, and it's this company called iStar. And they wanted to put somebody in the space.

Danny | So when they, they asked us if we would do it, we said yeah, you know, like, let's brainstorm on let's make it something that's very unique. And we had a friend who had a mid century modern, secondhand store up on the boardwalk and her lease was up, and we talked to her about running the gallery, bringing all her stuff there. We wanted it to be a community space, something that was like warm and inviting and not like a white glove, don't touch anything type space. We wanted it to be rock'n'roll. We wanted a backline there was a drum kit, base amp, guitars, all that in there. So we could throw parties. And they kept saying, yes, the people who were, you know, setting us up there. And I'm like, and they're just like, yes, yeah, we'll do that.

Danny | Yeah, we'll get you a drum kit. Yeah, we'll put some amps in there. Yeah, we'll get some guitars. And we're like, okay, yes, Tina can run it. And, and so. So one of the ideas was we had these huge windows, as I said, and we were putting up vinyl in these windows. And they reminded me of a transparency, which is a photographic term for like a slide. So for those who don't know, so, the old E6 process, Kodachrome Ektachrome, they come in a little slide. And these were like, huge slides to me. So I was like, let's call it Transparency. I'll be great. So they made up all the signage, we are just going to be there for three months anyway, right? So they made up all the signage and came back and somebody just just misstranslated it and wrote on the on the windows, like transparent, instead of transparency. And so I was like, whatever, I didn't really care. We were all going to be there for three months. And I said, well, you know, on the other hand, I'm a documentary guy. So like, I'm kind of transparent, you know, I'm trying to kind of invisible at times.

Danny | But, we have since been there five years. And now we have Sea Hear Now there as well. And we do a pop up gallery and it's the Sea Hear Now a festival with art from the musicians and we're raising money for the community and we keep giving back to the community. So it's pretty cool.

Vance | Danny, I could I could keep talking to you all day long. I'm like I'm looking at the clock going "uhh..."

Danny | Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me, Nigel. Great to meet you. Know, Vance and I have worked on a lot of projects together and we always have a great time and we're always pushing the envelope and you know, but more importantly, we have a great time working together and and I'm just happy to talk about it. Happy to be here.

Nigel | Pleasure to meet you, Danny. And I'm glad you've got an envelope. I've been looking for one.

Vance | What?

Nigel | He was pushing the envelope.

Vance | Oh! boom-boom-tsss!

Nigel | I'm trying to find the envelope

Danny | I'm gonna Push it under your door, slide to your door. Keep your eyes out.
 
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Vance | Hey guys, so what I want to share with you today is probably one of the most important aspects of shooting a concert film, the working relationship you have with the touring crew. Whether you're a producer, director, cinematographer, any crew member, this applies to all of you. I started my career as a touring lighting designer, for concert tours. And I've been able to bring that knowledge to concert film projects over the years. The value of that being is I understand the hard grind the touring crew deals with every day and us coming in, and basically we're throwing a spanner in the works of their daily routine.

Vance | So being able to get them on your side and being supportive and having a collaborative working relationship is really important. Back in 2018, I shot a concert film for the Eagles at the Forum with a English director by the name of with Nick Wickham. It was a three day shoot, two days of prep, um we were going to spend a lot of time with the touring crew. We started by scouting the show in Arizona a couple of weeks beforehand, I shot some footage, just to get a sense of the overall show, walked around, checked out the stage layout, things like that. Didn't have much interaction with the crew at that point. But just got a really good sense of everything.

Vance | We had planned on shooting uh 16 ARRIFLEX cinema cameras. Half the cameras were repositioned every night. So now our 16 cameras became you know, 40, cameras, whatever the number worked out to be. Also we had a lot of cameras placed on the stage, remotes, tower cams, mini tower cams, rail cams, that had to be placed on the stage. And they were going to maybe interfere with the, you know, the band setup on stage, they got the sound cables, they've got their guitar tech setups, all those kinds of things.

Vance | We had to have a good working relationship with the touring crew to allow us to position these cameras and get everything to work together and cleanly. Now, one of the other things I learned on the scout was what was going on with the lighting for the show and Steve Cohen, the lighting designer had done a great job with the show, it looked very cool, but there's elements that we need to adjust for shooting a live show, and the director, Nick, wanted to um bring in a little more dramatic lighting for the key band members.

Vance | As opposed to the normal front light spot positions that you'd normally see on a concert show, we'd have profile close up cameras would catch more of a shadow side of the face and things like that. So we had to work that out. And that would have required a great collaboration with the lighting designer and fortunately for us, Steve Cohen was all in. And you know, we spoke a very similar language, we both really love light and to be able to convey that passion to the cameras. He was all about it.

Vance | So we had a couple of really fun nights together. Hanging more lights, hanging lights for the audience, repositioning key lights. We actually refocused the entire show, not because we wanted to change focus, but we wanted it to be very accurate so that everything lined up perfectly and it was a really fun experience. 

Vance | Steve not only was very helpful with the lighting, but he also introduced me to key members of the touring crew, whether it be stage technicians, tour managers, production managers, anybody that could help facilitate these camera positions, especially in the stage area, he was very instrumental in making that happen for us. 

Vance | The point being, building mutual respect between the touring crew and the film crew, and having a collaborative relationship with them is such a crucial element of shooting a multi camera concert film. Now, a word of warning. Even if you have a good relationship with the touring crew, sometimes you can still get screwed. I was shooting a concert film probably 20 years ago. A big act in an arena. We were shooting actually broadcast cameras not film cameras, which was due to budgetary reasons, and running to a broadcast truck. My gaffer and I worked pretty closely with the LD, including setting levels on followspots during soundcheck as well as working with the shader in the truck to establish a good look.

Vance | I explained the limitations of the cameras to the lighting designer, you know limited dynamic range, don't get things too dark, especially on the musicians, and no problem, he was fine with that. So the show starts I'm in the truck with the director and my gaffer is sitting next to the lighting designer. First song looks fine, looks good. Second song's up, the entire band is in silhouette. And this continues for many songs. I spoke to my gaffer on the comms immediately, who in turn, spoke to the lightning designer. His response was basically it's my show and I'm not changing it.

Vance | As the show unfolded probably 50% had no light on the band members, which was fine for a wide shot, but for coverage and close ups obviously that didn't work. He refused to do anything about it. The lesson learned is though honestly, this situation was the only time that had happened to me, there is no take two on a live show. Make sure you're very, very clear on what your needs are. 

Vance | Once the show's rolling, I mean, even if you try and bring management in, trying to solve that situation during the show's rolling, it's gonna be really challenging. So, I think it's really important to make sure you have a really good relationship and a really good understanding with that lighting designer. And if you feel any inkling of them not following through, you want to have a conversation with the producers have to have a conversation with the artist management to let them know that your concerns and then it can be resolved.
 
[music]

Nigel | Thanks very much, Vance. We've got a very exciting new segment that is going to be debuting next episode, where we're inviting you the listener in the great big wide world to ask us questions, and we will endeavor to answer them. Uh we will not be telling you personal information such as inside leg measurement, unless there is money attached. We take all kinds of currency. You can ask us the questions on all forms of social media, Instagram, Facebook and Tik Tok. And the handle is @twostopsoverpodcast one word, one word is not part of the title. It's all one word, which is twostopsoverpodcast

Vance | And the two is T, W, O. As opposed to the number two.

Nigel | You said number two on our podcast. Now we got to edit that out.

Vance | Yeah. And just a note for you guys. We used to take crypto, but now we don't. So please send check or money order, Thank you.

  [music] 
 
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