Announcer | Welcome to the Two Stops Over Podcast. With your hosts, cinematographer Vance Burberry and director Nigel Dick. A show about stuff that goes on behind the camera, along with some mischief and special guests tossed in for fun.

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Nigel | Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our podcast. We are in Poland for this one,

Vance | It's um a little different episode for us than normal. We're breaking the normal formula for our show here. Um, because we're taking you with us to our adventures in Torun Poland for the Camerimage Festival,

Nigel | Which is in its 30th year. It was founded by Marek Żydowicz and he has obviously done an extraordinary amount of work to keep this festival going for such a long time. And it's very well respected - for DPs across the world. Am I right?

Vance | You are correct. It's, it's a wonderful, wonderful festival um focused on cinematographers and cinematography,

Nigel | And uh the thing which we mustn't forget to mention is that if you attend the Cameraimage festival, certainly in the roles that we did, uh we get a special package and you get a special pair of Cameraimage socks, which I have now worn a couple of times, and uh I can't recommend them highly enough.

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Nigel | So we suddenly find ourselves in the middle of Europe. Tell me what's happening.

Vance | Well, at 2am yesterday morning, um we arrived in Torun, Poland for the Camerimage festival. Which, I've been very blessed to be honored with a Lifetime Achievement Award for music videos as a cinematographer.

Nigel | And- and how did that happen?

Vance | Well, my good friend Daniel Pearl, who, I've known many years, uhm not personally, we only actually met a year ago, I was shooting a Alicia Keys film we were- had parallel careers for many, many years in music video. And uh he felt that I was worthy of this award, and uh recommended me for it.

Nigel | Well, it- the thing that's interesting here is that there's a lot of mist. So there's no light for you. I mean, you being a DP and all, You- You'd like some light, wouldn't you?

Vance | Yeah. But what's very nice about this town, or about Poland in general is they still have sodium vapor. Unlike Los Angeles, where all the lights are all LED. Yes, we appreciate the fact that that's environmentally friendly. But from a cinematographer's perspective, it doesn't look anywhere near as nice as sodium vapor everywhere, which I actually took a couple of photos last night. They look really great.

Nigel | And the people are wonderful.

Vance | Very, very wonderful people. Great place. It's so beautiful here in Torun. It's an ancient city date back- dates back to 1233. It has a wall all around it. It's quite amazing, actually. And it is the birthplace of Copernicus.

Nigel | The thing about the wall that I found out last night when I left you guys, one of the opening parties is that climbing over that wall to get out of the city back to our hotel. It's a bit fraught at one o'clock in the morning when it's kind of damp. And you're scaling the battlements.

Nigel | I think last night was the first time I've heard so much Polish in my life, that when a wonderful translator champ spent all evening translating from English into Polish and from Polish into English.

Vance | It was quite incredible that he had this kind of memory. I mean, people were speaking for, you know, two or three minutes. And he would just recite it all back in Polish or vice versa. It was quite impressive.

Nigel | It was but of course I'm not Polish. So I wouldn't understand if he was actually getting the information right when he was going from English and back. But he was taking notes though.

Vance | Yeah, but he's pretty good note taker considering the length of some of these speeches at the time. But it was all in all a lot of fun.

Nigel | Yep, lots of fabulous people getting introductions last night,

Vance | Well, actually, we got to catch up with Stephen Burum. Somebody that I'd worked with, you know, many years ago when I was a Best Boy, actually. And he was very helpful to me one day, teaching me a little bit about color science of motion picture film when I was becoming a cinematographer, so it's good to catch up with him. And he shot one of several great films that I've loved the cinematography, one being Rumble Fish. That was a pretty incredible black and white film.

Nigel | And I believe he did the Untouchables. I had a brief conversation with him and his wife and I think he was an early shooter for Helicopters, right.

Vance | Speaking of Helicopters, again, He did tell me an interesting story many years ago about working on Apocalypse Now. And they actually wore battle fatigues when they were working, the entire crew. And it was almost like going to war he said, and coming back there was such an emotional high was so much adrenaline on an every day on that film that you came back. And he said he felt really kind of lost for a while, like, you know, almost depressed. After coming back from that film, it's kind of interesting, the whole psychology that went on inside, some of which you can see in Hearts of Darkness, which is the film, um Francis Coppola's was wife made about the making of the film.

Nigel | I actually spent three days working with Martin Sheen. And I was desperate to ask him about Apocalypse Now. But we were, we were working on this scene from a compilation movie. So I didn't ever really get to ask him about it. But the scene involved Martin Sheen and Bokeem Woodbine, and we were rehearsing in my house and halfway through the first day of rehearsal, Bokeem embarrassingly had to say, look, I'm going for an audition at two o'clock in Santa Monica. So we all jumped in my car, and uh we went to the audition, and uh Bokeem jumped out of the car to go inside for his audition. And after 10 minutes, um Martin said, I'm gonna go inside and pull him out. So we can go back and rehearse. And Bokeem came out. And he was giggling because he told everybody well, I've got to do my audition now, because I've got Martin Sheen waiting in the car outside, and they all thought he was full of shit. And of course, suddenly, Martin Sheen walks in and goes, come on, we need to go now and it proved him right. Obviously, so which was a wonderful experience. Anyway, back to Apocalypse Now.

Vance | Yeah, Martin Sheen was- had a heart attack, if you remember making Apocalypse Now. And to me, I think it's one of the greatest American films of all time. Personally, I- it's just a masterpiece. It's this, sort of, crazy world of Vietnam in a way that ...shows the insanity of it, I think, and you know, how crazy it was there. So definitely a powerful film for me for sure.

Nigel | My buddies and I, when we saw it, we used to call it the slow helicopter movie because of the "Shoom, Shoom" of the slow mo of the- of the helicopters. But now since I've moved to America, I've actually met a number of people who fought in Vietnam, and I have been to Vietnam myself. So I have- I have many contrasting opinions about what went on there. But uh, yeah definitely an interesting piece of work.

Vance | Speaking of slow helicopter blades, interesting little bit of trivia. Um, the sound of those blades was actually not real helicopters. They were actually created on a very early synthesizer called a prophet five, which was a very small synthesizer. Synthesizer were big in this day.

Nigel | File under I never knew that.

Vance | Useless trivia, but I love it. *laughs*

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Nigel | How's your jetlag?

Vance | Uhh, getting better? That was a trip man. Getting back that was.

Nigel | Yeah, both ways. I mean, that was the number of flights and delays plus the three hour drive from Warsaw.

Vance | *laughs* Well, after the uh final gala and going to the Sony party at midnight, whatever it was, and then having to leave the hotel at 2am, to drive to Warsaw to get on a plane to London, and sit in Heathrow for four hours and then uh get on a plane to Los Angeles. That was kind of brutal.

Nigel | But we're international jet setters. So uh it comes with the territory.

Vance | Yeah it does,

Nigel | I had a lot of fun. I think you had more fun than I did. Because you went to all the parties.

Vance | Well, I did take a night off there in between, I kind of got worn down. I'm typically not a late night partier anymore, either. I did plenty of that in my younger years. So these days, I uh tend to like to go to bed fairly early, but not on this trip.

Nigel | Well, I am- I took the I'll go to bed early ticket, which meant that I had full access to the major breakfast. And also it allowed me to go out and shoot some B-roll in Torun. Though I spent seven days waiting for the sun to break through. So all the footage I managed to get is all kind of cloudy, but it's very atmospheric.

Vance | the parties were kind of cool, because I got to talk to a lot of people.

Nigel | Well, I think the people in podcast land need the truth is that actually all your DP's get together so you can whine about directors.

Nigel | That was actually the major reason why I went didn't go to any of the parties. So I could let your whining director flag fly.

Vance | in all truth. We always like good directors there- because they push us and inspire us. Like I think it's just uh bad directors we don't like.

Nigel | *laughs* It's the way he sighs when he says that. "You know, we like directors because hahhh they push us..." There's a there's a there's grumpiness in there. It's like, while I'm having a conversation with you about directors and DP's. Some man with a rubber glove is inserting his finger, you know where it shouldn't really go like it's in the middle of a medical situation.

Vance | Don't threaten me with a good time.

Nigel | all right back- back to sanity, uh which was your favorite party?

Vance | the ARRI party.it was just really comfortable. the food was great. Claudio, and I- well actually Claudio Miranda, myself, and yourself go back with him probably 35 years. So I got to speak to him and catch up.

Nigel | The thing that I thought was wonderful about this festival as apart from us, workers. There was some fancy people there, Alex Gibney, the wonderful documentary maker, Sam Mendes, a Director, Baz Luhrmann, who's just recently released the Elvis movie. Uh I met Joseph Kahn, a fellow music video director who I'd never met before. A very brief meeting, but it was nice to meet him. And also had quite a long chat with Director of Photography, Stephen Borum, who was being uh recognized by the Camerimage festival.

Vance | I saw Rumble Fish in- in Brussels, Belgium in like 1982, when it came out. it was one of those films that kind of blew my mind. I asked him a little bit about it. I said, Oh is the timelapse stuff. How was it shooting that? And he said "Well, we don't get clouds like that in the Midwest. So I sent a unit off to Hawaii. So all those beautiful cloud timelapse photos and reflections and stuff are all shot in Hawaii, not in the Midwest", which I thought was kind of cool.

Nigel | Ain't that the truth? And the number of times I've had people say, could you replicate that movie? You know, shots from that movie and you're trying to get the foreground to work with the clouds in the background? And little did we know, it was faked?

Vance | Yeah, they had to take the, you know, the motorcycle, everything, everything they took over to Hawaii, they built in Hawaii, because those are tropical clouds. You did speak about Baz Luhrmann did get to speak to Mandy Walker, who was the director of photography um of Elvis, and uh she had a kind of interesting story if you remember, in the film, they show sequences from the Elvis movie that was shot at Vegas, I think it's called Elvis. That's the way it is. So they actually went around and figured out all the camera positions, focal lengths, lens heights, every detail, so that they actually position cameras in exactly the same place for the recreation of the Elvis movie, which allowed them to intercut real footage from that film.

Nigel | How did your seminar go?

Vance | My seminar went really well. It was, you know, underwater cinematography got a little techy, but the room was full. And I probably spent an hour afterwards answering questions. So it was fun. I even actually had somebody email me from Berlin who would like to come over and take an underwater cinematography course with me, which is kind of cool. They want to fly out to California and do it.

Nigel | And I have to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls listening to our podcast, the sight of Vance walking through Camerimage with flippers in his wetsuit, and wearing his, uh you know, rubber thing over his head was a fabulous moment, I feel- I feel it's something that's probably, you know, people are not talking about, but it deserves a mention. And the noise of him going shhhhh, you know, with the with the cylinder thing on the back of his back while he's doing the while he's doing the seminar was, it-it- you know, there was a certain Pythonesque quality to it, I think.

Vance | There's always something quite exciting about wandering around in a rubber suit, Nigel I was there for your seminar, and I found it very, very enjoyable. I'd never known that you really didn't want to do this at all. And you just wanted to be Jimmy Page.

Nigel | Yep. I-

Vance | Which is a pretty, pretty um cool goal. If you ask me I mean, it's not like uh I uh would, I wouldn't mind doing that myself, maybe I'd- I'd probably want to be John Bonham No, not Jimmy Page,

Nigel | Well, I'm, I, there was no such thing as film school, when I grew up. Um I never had met a single person who'd been behind the camera. And I completely stumbled into what I do now. And my point for that particular part of the lecture, seminar, whatever you want to call it, which by the way, was entitled 12 Things They Never Teach You In Film School, was that, essentially, if you put your mind to it, you can do anything. And you should not listen to anybody who says, "No, you can't do this." looking back, I think most of the 12 things were life lessons rather than filmmaking ones, but they do apply to the business in which we're in, I hope you agree.

Vance | I agree, I agree. I agree 100% and you know, those life lessons, from a creative perspective, quite often come into our work. So I think they are very valuable. I think you should go out in the world and uh present that in a few other venues, because I think uh everyone can learn a little bit from that

Vance | In fact, Nigel's seminar was so good that a major film industry website, posted sections of it without permission, Nigel actually asked them to take it down. And they did. because it was kind of out of context and a little rude that they're getting advertising dollars and uh not acknowledging um the people that made the seminar

Nigel | The point for me was that, by all means, comment on it, review it, it doesn't matter if they hated it or liked it. But essentially, what they did was just said, these are the things. So what they did was they condensed it. And I just felt that having spent two or three weeks putting this lecture together, uh they sort of given away all the secrets, so to speak, but I'm very hopeful, I'll get a chance to do that seminar again. And I'm trying to figure out a way to do that.

Nigel | So, you and I were also on a jury for Best Music Video, along with local artist and director Monika Brodka. How was that for you?

Vance | it was very hard. I mean, you have 20 videos, a huge budget range. Um, you know, obviously I'm a director of photography, I'm focused ona cinematography point of view of how well the light told the story. coming from a directorial point of view, I can see that there, there can be a different choice. what was the video that you really liked?

Nigel | The video that I liked was Blasphemy by I don't know how to pronounce the artist's name perhaps I'm showing my age here now but Coldxman, I'm saying is

Nigel | Is the way you would pronounce his name and directed by Ian Pons Jewell. the thing I always feel about a music video is it needs to say something about the artist, and/or the song. And that really nailed it. But of course, we are at a festival which celebrates directors of photography. So, you and me had quite a conversation about whether my choice was appropriate. And we chose eventually, who did we choose? I'm going down the list here.

Vance | It's Light That Shines Through, the artists was Emmit Fenn, and the director was Conner Bell, and the director of photography on that project was David Okolo. I think certainly, from a directorial point of view and storytelling point of view, I think your choice was very, very good. I think my notes said um something like opportunity missed, I think what I said, because, you know, the environment, there was an opportunity to do something really special with that, and I felt that it was um visually was not as powerful as it could have been. 

Nigel | I mean, the interesting thing uh about it was that we met Monika just before we did our jurying, and uh was you, me, and Monika sat down in the, in the main theater, and she said to me, do you like rap? And my response was, well, I'm not really a rap person. I've never shot a rap video. My response to her was, you know, if you want me to talk about The Temptations, Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, blah, blah, blah, blah. I, you know, I can do that. As long as the day lasts, And of course, what did I do, but I fell in love with this video, which is essentially a rap video, which I thought was interesting. but The uh Light Shines Through video, of course, does not tick the boxes for me because I came away still knowing nothing about the artist. It was interesting, it was one of about three, four videos that we saw where the entire action was played backwards.

Vance | I just thought it was beautifully executed, as simple as it was, It was beautifully elegant. And I think, just the way the light felt inside the house, which was the top of the shot, but you know, it was- it wasn't quite a one shot video, but it was almost a one shot video. There's a couple of transition- transition moments, but yes, it was played backwards, but I just thought the grade, the light, the way it felt, and how the cinematography served the emotional context of the story I thought was really beautiful. So, I was okay with that choice.

Nigel | Yeah. And I too, uh the concept of the young boy, going back inside the house and his parents arguing was something I could definitely identify with. So I was- I was happy to join you two guys who both loved that piece to uh endorse it and uh give it the, the- the pat on the back so to speak.

Vance | Yeah, it was pretty well done. 

Nigel | I had a long chat with uh one of the ladies from the Ukraine Film Festival, who essentially had been given an open invitation by uh Camerimage to bring their festival energy to Poland as they can't hold it in Ukraine at the moment. Uh, this lady's name was Elena Rubashevska,

Nigel | I had a long conversation with her, which, you know, was very moving. And she just said, you know, look we can't, we can't have our normal life at the moment. And while we were there, a couple of rockets actually landed in Poland. So... you suddenly realize you're very close to something which you would have hoped would never happen again.

Vance | Yeah. It's really horrific what's happening there. And, you know, these people didn't ask for this. These people are not aggressive. These people are not, you know, threatening Russia. It's just, you know, one little man's ego. And uh it's pretty horrendous that these people have to suffer this through that, 
 
Nigel | So one afternoon, we found ourselves in this gorgeous theater, which we walk past every day to go to the main cameraimage festival building, and we sat down and uh Vance give us a brief view. What happened?

Vance | While, we uh sat down with uh Joanna Zydovicz Barcis, who is part of the backbone of this festival? She grew up with it. Her father was the creator of this festival and has run it for the last 30 years. And we're going to find out a lot more about the inner workings of this amazing festival.
 
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Nigel | Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of Two Stops Over. We are now in Poland. We're delighted to be here. And we're especially delighted to be here with Joanna whose last name I cannot pronounce. Who has invited Vance and myself to the show. And Joanna, how do you pronounce your last name?

Joanna | It's Żydowicz - Barciś

Nigel | Of course it is. And Joanna has invited Vance myself here to be a part of Camerimage. And perhaps you can give us a brief overview of what the festival is.

Joanna | Oh, it's hard to say in one line, because it's been 30th anniversary. So it's very special for us. And I'm really happy that you both agreed to visit festival. And this festival was one of the best, I think. We had a lot of great artists, talents, a lot of movies of feature films, documentary films, features like students competition, music videos,competition, seminars, workshops, q&a, it's like there's a lot of going on. So if you have like a whole day, I can tell you everything about it. But I'm not sure we have that much time.

Vance | Now it is dedicated to cinematography, primarily, yes, yes. And I believe your dad Merek started this festival?

Joanna | Yes.

Vance | Um, how does a, um a expert on medieval history, translate that into cinematography?

Joanna | Actually, my father wanted to go to the film school, he wanted to be a director. And he got like, two points under the line. So he didn't get to the film school. But he always was into the art. And then he got to the university here in Torun, where he studied and he always wanted to do something with movies. It was not easy for him, because you know, it was like, in 90s. So it wasn't easy to do something in Poland. But then he met Volker Schlöndorff, and they were discussing what- what kind of festival we could do. And somehow he, you know, was interested in paintings in lighting, and he loves Caravaggio. So somehow it's transferred, who is the most important person in the movies? Who is responsible for light and for the image? And who is that? we all know the answer, cinematographers. And back then they weren't very appreciated, the directors and actors were in the spotlight.

Joanna | So that was the, those were the people that should be here, like to, you know, recognized somehow, and it was connected to his passion. And somehow he's a crazy guy, I must tell ya, *laughs* somehow he, you know, connected with Vittorio Storaro. Who well, he heard about this idea. He told my father, I hate you, because you were the one who got this idea, not me. And so it started in 1993. And since then, like, you know, here we are now.

Vance | I mean, Vittorio Storaro, for me is definitely one of my icons, one of the people–
Joanna | yes *laughs*

Vance | –that has blown my mind. But, you know, I, I mean, I think for cinematographers, it's, in a way, it's a very emotional–

Joanna | mhm

Vance | –process. So being able to be here with all these talented cinematographers from all over the world is really exciting. And I've had some wonderful conversations. And, uh, it's amazing how we all kind of feel in a very similar way about it, I think, and I think that's really joyful and uh wonderful. But that being said, I mean, I certainly worked. When I was a gaffer, I work with the cinema-, Darius Wolski. Um, You've had a lot of great cinematography has come out of Poland.

Joanna | Yes.

Vance | UmYou have a really rich film history. 

Joanna | mhm

Vance | Um, Can you tell me a little bit more about that and how that's affected this festival? I mean, the- the sort of the culture in Poland is, seems very connected to film.

Joanna | Yes, it is. It- you know, when the communism was still here. Uh, the only way of, you know, expressing yourself and telling what is going on in our country and what we agree with, or, or we don't was through art. And, you know, directors and cinematographers, were the people who could tell, outside Poland, what's going on in here. how we feel what happened in the past, because we had, like great storytellers. And we also didn't have very great equipment back then. So cinematographers had to find their way to shoot the movies, like, you know, use regular things like bottles, you know, windows, glasses, something like that, to make the image look different.

Joanna | And that, you know, that's the reason we had this great film school in Łódź. And it was a great community, it still is, I graduated from the film school as well, because of the festival, actually, because I met here a lot of cinematographers. And they always told me that if you ever want to be a filmmaker, you must go to the film school, it's one thing you should do, you can be a filmmaker, like self made. But being in a film school, getting to meet people who are same- who have the same passion as you is something will stay with you forever, you may not never see them again, after graduating. But what they will tell you how you will cooperate will stay with you for- for the- for the rest of your life.

Nigel | Ah one thing that I found was very interesting before I came here, is that being a director, I wasn't really aware of the festival. And then every time I spoke to a crew member, it was the same as the Oscars. Oh, you're going to Camerimage? there was no question of what that is. So I think it's, to your credit, that this festival is very, very heavily respected in the industry, which is worldwide, whether it's 6000 miles west of here in Hollywood, or whether it is in Australia. So it's interesting that this festival has spread its tentacles around the world. Has- has that been a difficult process? Or is it was it easy to ask people to come here?

Joanna | It was a difficult process. Because cinematographers were never the problem, actually, because they love the festival. They wanted to come here, especially because they know that it's not about you know, red carpets, uh no one will ask you, what are you wearing, or paparazzi will not follow you everywhere. They will just meet, meet the friends who- we had situation that somebody came and he heard that his friend he hadn't seen from 10 years is coming the same year. And they had a reunion here and they were so grateful.

Joanna | And they said this is the place when I can meet my old friends, and that I can really discuss the art. This is the place where we can we can discuss the movies, we can discuss the craftsmanship, we can discuss new technologies, and you can meet young people who appreciate your work and want to learn from you. 

Joanna | And they met people here and suddenly like a Dubrow came with his sister to the festival for the first time and few year, few years later he made the movie and won the bronze frog. So, we had like people- and they said this festival made me, I met here my director, I met here, I met here my Gaffer, I learned so much from people here because- not in, not in many places you have like great cinematographer.

Joanna | or directors who share, there is nothing like I will not tell you that! there are like, of course, I will tell you how I did that. And few of them had situations like they may have had a movie in the competition and met the idol. And he said, You know I have a movie in the competition. And they were Oh yes. Which movie and he was like this movie. Oh, really? You are the cinematographer of this movie? Please tell me how you did you did that and this.

Joanna | So for a young cinematographer who is at the beginning of his road, hearing something like that from his idol is like life changing. I always say that I went to film school and did movies for a short time, because of the fes- because of the festival. I remember situation when I was like seven years old, eight years old, it was the beginning of the festival. And I remember going to the festival center. And suddenly I see a young student, like taking the chair from the volunteer who was standing over there and running somewhere, and we're following him "what's going on?" And suddenly, we get into this large crowd of students sitting on the windows on the floor, on the- you know, everywhere, absolutely everywhere you couldn't get through.

Joanna | And the guy with the chair is going with the chair over his head, and suddenly he puts it on the floor. And one cinematographer, the elder one, I believe it was Sven Nykvist or someone like that, he sits on this chair, and he starts telling a story. And I was like, Oh my God, that's so amazing. I need to go- I was eight years old, I believe. And I was like, I need to go to the film school. Because there are people with passion of the movies. And Sven was like delighted because there was absolutely a whole crowd and everyone were sitting on the- sorry, on the floor, writing down notes, asking him questions.

Joanna | And then the idea of doing the workshop was like we should do workshops, because students want to- have a question. and since then it was like every year. you had people just following cinematographers, going to the city, talking about the lighting and everything. So it's like, inspiring, inspiring for many people, and for me was very inspiring. And I still see that. Uh, Here is the exchange of experience that I've never seen anywhere before. So I think this is the power of the festival that, despite the age difference, everyone feel like they are one big family. 

Vance | For me, I find it- I do find that. I've learned. I've learned things. And I've been doing this a long time. I think whether you're a young cinematographer, an older cinematographer, that's more experience, we all learn from each other. You know, because when you get older, you want to be in touch with how the next generation sees things. So that's really valuable. You have a you have been doing this for three years, maybe? you're working for Camerimage.

Joanna | Yes. Four years, I've been working for the Camerimage but-

Vance | What did you do before that?

Joanna | I used to work as a location manager. Yes, I graduated from the film school from the production department. And I had the pleasure to work with a few great Polish filmmakers like Jerzy Skolimowski like Andrey Vida. So it was a great experience for me. And I think that the experience I got from the festival, because both of them I met at the festival at the young age, uh was a huge advantage on me because I knew them and I knew that they are normal people with great vision.

Joanna | They were really great masters for me. And I learned a lot of them like how the work on the set should look like so it was amazing journey. But then, you know, I got a family, young kids, and working at the festival allows me to still be in that industry and be a mother.

Nigel | Uh coming here for the first time, I was surprised at the range of films that were being shown. So not only films with history like, right at the moment, I think you're screening the Untouchables. 

Joanna | Yes

Nigel | But last night, I watched a documentary from uh, from uh, Beirut. 

Joanna | Yeah

Nigel | I'll stay–  Last night, I watched a documentary from Beirut, um we've seen a whole range of music videos, 

Joanna | Mhm

Nigel | we're both on the jury. So what is the process that goes into selecting what is going to be shown at the festival?

Joanna | It's not very easy part of the festival, because we open submissions, and people can submit their music videos, documentaries, feature films, student films, and then the selection committee, watch those movies. And they like, we together with them decide which one of them are the best. And it's really hard because you know, we don't have a venue big enough to show all the movies.

Joanna | And very often it's like, we have few movies that should be- should should be screened here. But the venue is not enough, the week is not enough to show all of them. And we have to choose the best. And it's really, really hard, because there's a lot of young filmmakers, not only young, but also experienced filmmakers that made great movies, but unfortunately, they will not be screened here, despite we really, really, really would love to, and with the music videos is the same problem. Because this year, we had like over 400 music videos submitted. Yeah, and choosing only 20 of them, it's like, you know, you- you cut off half, and then from the half, you trying to cut another half. And it's like, the process and the discussion between the people who select the movies to watch them. It's always like, this is the- this is the- this has a great cinematography, but this has a great story.

Vance | I mean you love different projects for different reasons.

Vance | One of the other aspects, and where I've spent a lot of time speaking while the cinematographer is here and production designers and other people. And it's been very fun have been the parties.

Joanna | *laughs* Yes, parties.

Vance | These- well, before I came, everybody's like this- the festival is amazing. And so are the parties.

Joanna | Mhm

Vance | um, how did that come about? It seems to be a part of the festival that's very popular, I think because everybody connects.

Joanna | Yes. It's the place where, we all know how alcohol works. 

Vance | *laughs*

Joanna | sometimes artists are like introverts and when they go to the party and have a drink, they like open to other people. And also because of it's closed party because it's only for the participants of the festival where the nominees can meet thier idols, like you. so they can talk with you and ask questions and this atmosphere of like, we are not at the official event like we must sit in tie- black tie, and straight and they are serving our food on the white plates. It just like party stand up party we can discuss.

Joanna | We can talk about something. then you see somebody dancing on the dance floor like Baz Luhrmann this year. It's like you suddenly feel like you're a part of the family, Nobody judges you. it's just like, regular visit with friends, where you can drink, talk, have a good conversation.

Joanna | Also meet people from the, you know, equipment department who can come to you and say, "Hey Nigel, hey Vance, we have a new camera. Would you like to use it for your next music video?" 

Vance | Yeah, it's great. I mean, I definitely had some fabulous conversations with people and I kinda make new friends. And I'm going to keep in touch with, because of our love for the art.

Joanna | I'm really happy to hear that. it's the part of the festival that we want everyone to get new friends to get new connections. Because we know that in the future, there'll be kind of great projects because of that, because you connect with somebody unique that you- you wouldn't meet in other way, if not coming into the Camerimage.

Nigel | Um, At the opening gala, there was a very moving moment.

Joanna | Yes. I believe you're you're thinking about the movie "Svitlo". About Ukrainian?

Nigel | Yes.

Joanna | filmmakers that had to go to war, and leave their film equipment for guns to fight for the country. And yes, it was very moving for all of us.

Vance | Very powerful, I mean, I was bawling

Nigel | At- at what point do you decide this is not about art, during the festival? This is a political moment, or we need to share a current political moment in the festival. At what point do you draw the line?

Joanna | You know, we don't feel like the situation in the Ukraine is at the festival is strictly political. It's about preserving culture of the country that has been invaded. And that's why we have to Ukrainian festival going at the Camerimage. Because when the war began, we were all like, "what's going on?" We didn't actually understand what happened. And suddenly, we had all those refugees coming to Poland, leaving their homes, families behind. And many filmmakers that stayed over there, and who used to come to the festival, who are the part of our family. So if somebody is part of your family, and is doing something extreme, you- you don't forget about those people. And we don't feel it's about politics, but it's about part of our family, about part of film family.

Joanna | Because if the situation was in any other country around the world, and our film friends, like filmmakers, were on the front, we also would support them and we wouldn't let anyone forget about them. Because, you know, it's like, now we are sitting here together and having a great conversation. And we could have been sitting with them having this conversation if this if there wasn't a war. So we just wanted to support them and to show the whole world that it's not only a conflict between, you know, like politics, it's a conflict that involves people who, who are like us. who are who have great sensitivity, who has a great feeling of responsibility for the country for- for the culture because they don't want to lose their country. And if we can help them and remind the world that in- over there are fighting people who weren't prepared to fight. They are just doing the right thing. Taking care of the country.

Nigel | Don't shoot bullets, shoot films.

Joanna | Exactly.

Vance | I mean, just seeing that those images of people... I mean it is still hard

Joanna | I know it's yes.

Vance | people like us.

Joanna | Yes, exactly. And that was the point of it. Because many of filmmakers are afraid to visit Poland right now, because they feel like we are too close to Ukraine. And Poland is safe country. And, you know, we wanted to show people that we don't forget about friends, filmmakers, and not only about film- filmmakers, but we had so many refugees, families who came here, mothers with children, who had to leave their fathers over there. Like, you know, we heard a ton of stories that are heartbreaking, absolutely heartbreaking.

Joanna | And those people who are living in Torun, Warsaw, Krakow, Lublin, everywhere around Poland, and they hear that we have Ukrainian film festival going on. They are like, "really, it's Ukrainian?" And we are like "yes, it's your festival. It's supposed to be in Kyiv. But it can't be in Kyiv. So it's here." But it's absolutely about Ukraine, made by Ukrainian people, for Polish and Ukrainian people, and for everybody around the world. 

Nigel | There was a moment in the documentary last night that I watched about the pigeon owners is in the Lebanon. And, uh, he was talking to the television camera, and he had a box of pigeons, he released the pigeons into the air. And he said, "We need to be like the pigeons, pigeons are all different colors...

Joanna | mhm

Nigel | different types of pigeons, and they are all flying together." Here in the Lebanon, he said, "I don't care if somebody is Christian...

Joanna | Mhm

Nigel | ...or if they're Muslim, or whatever it is, we need to be able to walk down the street together, I don't care if somebody comes to my neighborhood with a cross, we should all be able to fly together." And for me, that's one of the amazing things about film is that you can reach across boundaries...

Joanna | Mhm

Nigel | ...with images, whether you understand the language or not.

Joanna | Absolutely. And I think that if we feel makers can show support to each other, like we don't forget about you, because you live in Ukraine, and I live safely in States, Spain, in- I don't know wherever you live. But we don't forget about you, because we are a unique family. We are spread around the world. But we use the same language. We use the language of moving pictures. And we have our sensibility. we show the stories that used to happen, that may happen, that are going on. And if we still do that, and support each other, no matter what we can absolutely change the world. Because who else than us can show people the good and the bad things? Because of course we can learn- we should learn from the mistakes of the past generations.

Joanna | But it's very easy to forget about that. And the filmmakers are people who can help people not to forget, because we had so many great movies about the past that still stays with us, because of the images. You can close your eyes and you can see the images from the movies. And it will- it will stay with you forever. And that can be a life changing because in the future, if you are in the same situation as the character from this movie, you will have those images in front of your eyes. And that helps you make, I hope so, a good decision to do- to go the correct way, or do the wrong thing.

Nigel | For future festivals, what would you like to- uh, is there something you really want to try and do which you're not doing at the moment? is- are there plans for the future?

Joanna | Of course, we have this great plan of building a new festival center that will allow us to do way more things, screen more movies. But I think my biggest dream is that filmmakers around the world would understand what's the idea behind the festival. that they shouldn't be afraid that they will be mobbed, or you know, like, they will have to go through the red carpet. But this is the place where we can remind people about art about the beauty of the world and discuss a lot of things. uh outside the politics, forgetting about who raised us, what would- what we believed in what, what kind of, you know, people we met. it's about learning from each other, and preserving the good things that are in the world and reminding people that there is a lot of good around us.
 
[music]

Nigel | so uh, how was it getting your award?

Vance | here's the thing. Joanna early on in this process invited me to get this award for outstanding achievement in music video. Joanna said, "Who would you like to give you this award?" And I said, "you know, I have a dear friend Nigel Dick, director, yourself who gave me my start in this business, and that's who I'd like to present me with the award." They said, "Great. Give me his info." I- actually I think I called you up and asked you if it was okay. And you said "Yeah, I'd love to" And everything happened and you ended up in Poland, at Camerimage in Torun, and we're sitting there on the final evening, at the final gala and up comes the music video award for myself, um- to get the golden frog and out steps Merek, Zyd- Zidigvee-

Nigel | *Laughs* Merek, who organizes the festival

Vance | Out steps Merek, who organizes this festival and uh, comes out and calls me up to present me with this award. I'm like, wait a minute! Where's Dick? Dick was nowhere to be seen. Well he was to my right sitting in the front row. So as soon as I went out there, I took the award from uh Merek and uh thanked him and uh turned around and I- I said, Nigel, get your butt up here. Come on, come on, hurry up. And, I brought you up and we had a hug. And I thought you should hold the frog with me. Becauseyou're kind of responsible for it in many ways. But I did a speech and I was terribly nervous. I did have notes. But you know, it's kind of nerve wracking. When you've kind of got a spotlight blaring in your face. And you're standing there all alone with this statue. at the end of the day, they never could figure out why you weren't brought in to give me the award. But hey, you were there for it next and most important thing.

Nigel | it was very decent of you to ask me to join you. And, and I think the reason why they did not want me to present you with the award in the event, it's because as you said I was there at the beginning and they didn't want me to be there for you at the end. 

Vance | *Laughs*

Nigel | they wanted your career to go on. So uh, which I can- I can get behind that

Vance | Yeah, I mean ain't given up anytime soon. I love it too much. I probably like doing what I do more now than at any part of my career, actually. I love it so much. It's such a joyful experience for me to be a director of photography and I will continue to do so hopefully till I drop and I'm done for. I'd uh like to have that Freddie Young experience, I think he shot up till he was 92 years old or something crazy like that.

Nigel | What you're missing out uh for the ladies and gentlemen of uh podcast land, is that the most crucial piece of advice you were given during the course of this uh experience in Poland is that when you receive an award like this, uh, you cannot carry it back on the plane because it's so heavy and angular, it's actually regarded as a weapon. I'm not joking. So you can't take it through, you know, with you on the plane and wave it to other people on the plane to show you how fabulous you are. You have to put it in your suitcase. So the big question of the week is, did it get home safely?

Vance | It got home safely, I well wrapped up in the middle of my suitcase and all my clothes and it got home safely. I was nervous because actually the last case to appear was that particular suitcase and I'm thinking, "hmm, somebody might have wanted a golden frog and took my case," but they didn't.

Nigel | I just want to linger for a second on the image of you flying across the Atlantic to halfway across Europe to be presented with this gorgeous award of black sort of quartzy pillar, if you like, with a golden frog on top of it. Uh, an extraordinary recognition of your career. And then to get it home, you shove it in amongst your dirty underwear to get it back to the States. I mean, this is a terrible reflection on your honor that you've been given.

Vance | Yeah I gave it a good bath when I got home. 

Both | *Both laugh*

Nigel | So we've got to the end of the- of the entire festival. And most importantly, Vance has this fabulous little statue thing, And we returned- we- we return to the hotel, We go to the bar, order a couple of drinks, get some food 'cause we're very hungry. And I'm sitting there, with tucked into my top left corner of my suit, a folded up piece of paper, which I've spent hours working on. In fact, weeks, I'd written the speech before we ever left for Poland. And I was kind of upset that I hadn't had a chance to share it with anybody. And I felt it was important that Vance got to hear it. So Lindha, uh had her zoom with her. She opened up the Zoom, she turned it on, She pressed the red button, and I gave Vance his blessing speech if you like, and here is a playback of that right now.
 
Nigel | This is the speech I was going to give. It's entitled Vance's Award Speech. 

Nigel | About 1000 years ago in a darkened Hollywood stage, I heard a loud cackling laugh. "What the hell is that?" I asked. 

Nigel | I was told, "Oh, that's a rare bird that's recently migrated to the USA. It's a one of a kind. It's a part of the gaffer family." We soon became friends he would call me Monsieur Deke and I chrisened him Bumbleberry. 

Nigel | One day, Bumbleberry fluttered- fluttered up his plumage and asked if I would give him his first Director of Photography gig. I said, Yes. 

Nigel | Little knowing what madness, fun, laughter, and tears I was letting myself in for. Since then, the Bumbleberry and Monsieur Deke have traveled the world together, shooting everyone from Ozzie to Britney, shooting everything from a small bottle of soda to massive concerts with thousands of fans.

Nigel | Directors of photography are truly practitioners of the most mystical art of all, they paint with light and create the pictures that define our art. 

Nigel | There's a saying that film is war. And any soldier will tell you that the most important thing he needs when he's in the trenches is his trusted buddy at his side. 

Nigel | Vance, for me, you have always been that trusted right hand man. 

Nigel | You do beautiful work. You never give up. Your passion for film is relentless. And always there's been that wonderful crackling laugh.

Nigel | It gives me enormous pleasure tonight to present you with this EnergaCamerimage Award for achievements in the field of music videos. Ladies and gentlemen, Vance Burberry.

Vance | Thank you Nigel. Well, I just wanted to I actually, I'm just happy to hear it. That was really sweet. And I will keep this speech. And I will go- I'm going to get it framed as is.

Vance | I know there is something kind of meant to be about this. It's really funny. But hey, it is what- I have a frog. And I have my Dick and I'm all good.

Nigel | And here's the thing. We hope that- that now that speech will be heard by many more people than we're in the auditorium tonight. As wonderful as Merek's festival is we've now created a situation where that speech can be broadcast around the world.

Vance | Good point. That's a great point. Yeah. Yeah, I love it.
 
[music] 

Nigel | So that concludes really our trip to Torun, Poland. Uh, I hope that you've got a sense of smell of the perogies and pancakes from that part of the world. And Vance, why don't you sign us out.

Vance | this is our last podcast of uh 2022. It was a great way to end the year. And let's hope that uh 2023 brings a lot more fun and adventure. we'll have more for you then.

Nigel | And we've got some surprise guests coming.

Vance | I know it's exciting, isn't it?

Nigel | Don't mention their names.

Vance | I won't tell anyone, I promise.

Vance | Hey Nigel, piss off

Nigel | Happy Christmas Vance

Vance | fuck Christmas 

both | *both laugh*
 
[music]
 
 
announcer | Thanks for listening to Two Stops Over with Vance Burberry and Nigel Dick! 
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